Souls?

[Nothingbody]

My question : Do any of you say we have souls? if so - why do you believe that? or Why do you say we don't? I'm just interested in hearing some more opinions on the existance or non-existance of souls, I'm undecided on the subject really.

[Maverick]

How do you define the term: soul?

[Nothingbody]

Any way you wish, I think of it as... something more than our brains and chemicals and physical parts we have. But however you or anyone else defines it I'm interested in it. Even answering that same question "How do you define the term: soul?". I'm just looking for opinions, not the "one truth".

[Supremor]

Interesting question, Nothingbody

Personally, I don't think I'm qualified to answer this question. I couldn't even guess I had a heart, or a liver, or a stomach, unless I was told about it in a biology lesson.

Take this example- In Greek and oman times, it was thought that the heart was where all the thinking processes went on. It was only after, significant amounts of autopsies had been done that we got anywhere near knowing what different parts of us do.

And we only knew about them, because we could see them, and do tests on dead ones. So, how about a soul. I can't see it, can't touch it, I'm not even sure what it does. I just don't know what to think.

And remember, neurologists don't completely understand the brain yet. It may be that our brain, really contains a soul in it somewhere. I don't believe this and I don't believe in a soul at the moment. But I can't make a proper judgement, so my opinion really isn't any use to you.

[Nothingbody]

Supremor thanks alot, your opinion was useful to me! You just taught mt something about Greek and Roman times, and brought something to my attention that I wasn't thinking much about. Thanks!

[Supremor]

Always a pleasure to put forward an opinion that's no use to you, and yet get thanks for it:)

[dragonfly]

I know I get on dodgey ground here but despite my regular periods of taking a strong atheist stance I am always pulled back by my sensation of a soul and in some cases the souls of others.

Just as I believe human beings are unable to comprehend the true form/nature of God (if one exists)I believe it is just as difficult to understand or comprehend the nature or form of a soul if it exists....but I will attempt to explain a little as I believe I have indeed felt my own.

It has been said that the eyes are the window of the soul and perhaps in certain curcumstances this may be true. I will illustrate a true story where by my very life was saved by someone glimpsing,indeed connecting with my soul(what ever that is).

My life has been odd and dark....I have observed death and looked upon the dead more than most in a western culture because my search for the truth or atleast a glimmer of it has led me to such experiences.

To cut a long story short I will take you to the flood plains of Benares in India where I lay on the banks of the Ganges in the process of being clubbed to death by atleast 12 men.

These men were the ragged outcasts,cruel and menacing with their flesh rotted and surpurating beneath strips of tattered,filth encrusted strips of cloth....banished painfully from their community to a place of unutterable inhospitality,daily remined of their isolation by the tantilising city on the far opposite banks .They rained upon me the savage blows they must have felt life had dealt them.

The horror and terror that consumed me numbed my pain and only the astonishing vemillion of my own blood spattering across the sand reminded me of my fleshs destruction.I longed for a fatal blow,my killing was taking far too long!I can not describe my terrible despair at meeting my end this way.

Then a strange thing happened .Its hard to describe but I felt inside myself a poweful core of life, I seemed to step inward and see my life..who I was and stranger still I was filled with incredible peace,indeed compassion...I felt, I saw an inner light. Now you could argue that my brain sought to remove myself from this terrible reality and fair enough BUT you can only take my word for it ...this was different AND furthermore I recognized this thing/soul for it had come to me before and not only in times of peril .BUT Better still another saw it. I looked up at one of my attackers and met his eyes AND CONNECTED...we spun into each other and for a micro second nothing else existed.I KNEW he would save me and I saw/felt he knew it too.

He gasped and reeled back with shock.His bitter,angry face transported with resolve and mercy.He swung his club at his own fellows...a battle raged above me as friends became foe.I lay limply and broken,glad to die in peace....but I did not die.
Drawn by the commotion a fisherman in a little red boat came to my aid while this single man held my attackers at bay.

I took along time to recover....more from the shock of contact with anothers soul than any outward injury.The story may seem overly dramatised to you who have not experienced anything like this but my words can only convey the barest impression....I assure you that nothing can adequately describe what happened to me.

[Nothingbody]

Dragonfly thank you for sharing that with me, it didn't seem over dramatised to me, I have never been through anything like that so for me to say it was over dramatised would be foolish. I'm "protected" from death in my life, not my own death, but that of others. I have never observed death or the dead, I've never been with dying people (other than in the sense we are all dying). I regret that. Thank you again for telling me that, I'm glad you did make it out of that alive.

[zoul]

Ha the immortal soul hmmmm. Socrotese the greek philosiphere came up with this notion (according to Plato) his student. Unfortunatley none of Socrotese's ideas where written down while he was alive, his students carried on his work and wrote about the man himself so we do know quite abit about him.
Interesting to point out that Socrotese was forced to drink hemlock and die becouse he didn't credit his ideas to any of the gods.
So Socrotese the atheist died for a belief that he came up with himself. There fore you could say " he knew it was the truth coz he made it up himself" lmao
Any way like many thing the christians found out about these ideas and incorperated them into their own religion. As the hebrews before them have plagerised so many ideas from other cultures. Pagan festivale, greak thinkers such as Arististole Plato Socrotese ect ect.
couple of books to look out for if anyone is interested mind you they are old
Sir James Frazer : The Golden Bough.
H G Wells : Outline of History
and Prof DeBurgh :The Legacy of the Ancient World.
Sachar's history of the jews

[dragonfly]

:)Thanks Nothingbody....me too! A violent death is not the way I hope to go.

Why do you regret not seeing the process of death or a dead body? I am very interested in your reply.

I chose to find death for many reasons. One being I am terribly afraid of it and so wished to confront it, see it in the hope I might have some glimpse of what exactly death is. I am not afraid to wink out of existence ...and although I do not wish to suffer in dying if the final moment was the entire extinguishing of myself I would embrace even that!

I hoped to see the soul if there was one.

What I fear is the unknown....I fear an existence,particularly an eternal one. I fear the separation from things and those I love. I fear that if there is a God its idea of an after life will be vastly different from my own. I fear to go on thinking in the darkness without the embrace of another......I feel fear that my soul may float lost in the ether.

Death...ah nothingbody.Becareful of your regret.I have images that will haunt me forever and perhaps beyond.Some deaths are sudden.Some linger.Some people hold out their arms to be rescued from it and resist.Some are peaceful and willing. I will tell you if you really want to know.

A dead body is another matter.I have seen bones in the sand,scented oiled flesh turned over to the flames,bloated corpses in rivers both fresh and yellow...I have seen vultures fight with a pack of dogs over human flesh.I have always been curious....but I have seen others scream with horror and flee from the same scenes I peer closer at.

I have myself confronted death several times and been embraced by it because I foolishly chose to take a deserted track through a jungle, a dark alley in the city,a walk through a violent storm, a step into an afray to assist another....I no longer wish or need to see /meet death that way especially at the hands of men...or beast(I could tell you a tale of a tiger one day...).I can even say that given a choice between saving myself or another I chose myself....I am no longer ashamed to admit that.For years it tortured me,the fact that I was not noble and self sacrificing and that I made the choice so instantly knowing in the same instant I condemned the other.Certainly the look in his eyes was one of betrayal. We humans like to believe the best of ourselfs,the ideal.

The existence of a soul does not nessessarily indicate what a deity is or what exists after death if anything but if a soul exists it does perhaps suggest the possibility of a creator (or the possibility that one did exist once) .

[nonny]

I do not believe in the soul, becouse there is no medical proof and since i want to be a doc i go by that.

[Yaw]

zoul

Ha the immortal soul hmmmm. Socrotese the greek philosiphere came up with this notion (according to Plato) his student. Unfortunatley none of Socrotese's ideas where written down while he was alive, his students carried on his work and wrote about the man himself so we do know quite abit about him.
Interesting to point out that Socrotese was forced to drink hemlock and die becouse he didn't credit his ideas to any of the gods.
So Socrotese the atheist died for a belief that he came up with himself. There fore you could say " he knew it was the truth coz he made it up himself" lmao

I don't believe this is the case. At any rate, the only thing written about Socrates we can really trust is the Apology, since it is a transcript of his trial. In everything else, Plato increasingly used Socrates as a mouthpiece for his own ideas, meaning that Socrates' ideas are no longer actually his.

I recall Socrates being sentenced on charges of "corrupting the youth", but I don't recall him ever professing atheism. I recall reading somewhere that there is a story about him doubting the literal truth of Greek myth, but that does not mean that he was atheistic. Unfortunately, my copies of the Apology have effectively been given away, so I can't reference them. Anyone want to help me out by confirming?

[dragonfly]

Wow non believer that was a very firm statement and a fair one but may I suggest that the best doctors I have known are those with extremely flexible minds .Instead of throwing up walls these doctors open doors.I am not suggesting you won't be a good doctor! I am merely pointing out the difference I have noted between great ones and good ones.

Things and abilities exist even yet in the human body and mind that medical science is unable to define or explain.Maybe one day they will.The fact that the soul lacks a medical definition does not rule out the possibility that it exists and nor the possibility that one day it may be recognised and explained .

[zoul]

thank you Yaw as i said we know about soctotese becouse of plato . maybe plato was the atheist and used sorotese to avoid the hemlock still denile of the gods seems like atheism to me

[dragonfly]

I believe you to be right Yaw. Socrates encouraged people to question religion and popular opinion on it without ever offering a clear alternative view.He certainly does not reject religion.

He was particularly against superficial piety or doing good deeds just to please the gods as he felt good deeds were only of true value when altruistic....infact he argues quite lengthily on the definition of "good"