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Post by Sesshoumaru on Dec 16, 2004 19:31:29 GMT -5
It is insane and ridiculous to take a section out of what unites our country just because you're an atheist  |
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Post by solidsquid on Dec 16, 2004 19:39:31 GMT -5
It is insane and ridiculous to take a section out of what unites our country just because you're an atheist You mean, keep a statement that was inserted into the original pledge without the opinion of the populace and as a mechanism of propaganda to dehumanize the Soviet Union? |
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ToxicMoon
Seasoned Citizen
Delusional One
Posts: 129
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Post by ToxicMoon on Dec 16, 2004 22:41:11 GMT -5
It is not insane or ridiculous because church and state should be seperate. Otherwise it ends up excluding a lot of people.
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Filter
Seasoned Citizen
An opposing thumb has made all the difference!!
Posts: 221
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Post by Filter on Dec 23, 2004 14:28:45 GMT -5
It is insane and ridiculous to take a section out of what unites our country just because you're an atheist Since you don't know what it is to be an atheist (and therefore what is insane for an atheist), I think what you might really mean is: It is insane and ridiculous for society on a whole to allow the removal of a section that unites them just because of a few atheists. Is this more accurate? |
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Dec 26, 2004 13:49:19 GMT -5
Yes
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Post by AuntieSocial on Dec 26, 2004 17:32:02 GMT -5
It is insane and ridiculous for society on a whole to allow the removal of a section that unites them just because of a few atheists. Is this more accurate? In the same line, is it insane and ridiculous for society on a whole to allow the enchainment of people of colour because the majority of that society are white? Is it insane and ridiculous for society to treat women as less-than-human, not persons, because the male dominant leaders of the society and religion did not see it fit to grant them "persons" status? The history of our western-society is full of examples where the majority has subjugated and discriminated against the minority. We have made great strides toward equality in many areas, but we aren't there yet. Minorities are still being subjected to unfair treatment, and that includes all people of a religion other than Christianity in the U.S.A. The desire to remove "under God" from the pledge of alligence is not just for the atheists. The hindus, muslims, buddhists, and any other religion one can name, do not worship the God of the Jews. Why should their loyalty pledge (which is forced political speech, and therefore unconstitutional on other grounds) include a god that is not theirs? The history of the pledge is very interesting. I suggest you read about it some time. There are links in other threads on this board. The phrase in question was added during the Cold War, as mentioned by solidsquid. It does not belong in the pledge, as written by Bellamy. |
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Post by michaelpain on May 26, 2005 12:10:04 GMT -5
How can it unite us if we don't all agree on it? There are plenty of people on the other side who don't believe in a god, believe in many gods, see 'God' only as the Christian god and don't believe that God and government should be so intertwined. On another note, should we and do we really need to indocterinate patriotism? If our country is great we will respect it on merit not by a mindless pledge. TTFN Michael Pain atheistempire.com"Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private schools, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and the state forever separated." - Ulysses S. Grant |
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Post by larry278 on Jun 4, 2005 17:05:59 GMT -5
who cares
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Post by darklight on Jun 4, 2005 19:27:27 GMT -5
I agree it shouldn't be in the pledge.
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Post by diceshooter60 on Feb 22, 2006 2:07:47 GMT -5
It shouldn't be in the Pledge, on our money, in our courtrooms or anywhere else that government supports with its money.
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Post by solidsquid on Feb 22, 2006 9:50:06 GMT -5
Absolutely.
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dunamos
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 10
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Post by dunamos on Feb 23, 2006 23:52:51 GMT -5
Is anyone doing anyone on this website doing anything to remove it from the place your don't want to see Under God at?
Also couldn't muslims see under god as equivilent to under Alah?
And how is Under God repressing you or subjucteing you as Atheist?
(this is not an attack they are just questions)
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Post by vertigo on Feb 24, 2006 6:12:26 GMT -5
Dunamos, if you are expected to swear "under God", it means you are acknowledging God's existence. This goes against the separation of church and state. It's no more complicated than this.
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Feb 24, 2006 13:36:08 GMT -5
Sesshoumaru: I don't believe that I have welcomed you to the site. In that case welcome, and I hope you enjoy discussing issues with us. Now that pleasantries are over lets move on to the discussion at hand. I am sure that you will agree with me that any form of oppression is incorrect. Whether by race or creed all men should be held equal until they write or open their mouths to speak. I don't know if you see it or not but the major problem with the whole bible in the courtroom is exactly as my fellows have put it, I personally don't like the idea of being held by something I don't believe exists. Imagine for a moment that you were brought into a court where when you went to testify we made you state that your God did not exist because we think that it would cloud your thoughts. You would be just as angry as we. At any rate swearing on the bible is not necessary, there are already laws against purgery. Thank you for listening to my argument.
Dunamos: I don't believe I have talked to you before either so welcome as well. Now in answer to your question yes I have written many letters to my mayor Governor senator and congressman on the subject. Also in response to your question on Muslims. The answer is no Allah is not the same as God. They are two totally different Gods. It's very true that to most people they would have the same outlook as you. Still you offer a Muslim a Christan bible and they are just as likely to spit in your face as they are to put their hand on it and swear. (As Would I btw) It is an insult of most grievous nature to people who believe in different Gods, because to them it is as if you are saying their God is wrong and yours is right. This is not a matter where just saying that every ones God is the same will cut it. Temperance is needed here my friend not a quick response. Thank you for reading my argument.
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dunamos
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 10
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Post by dunamos on Feb 25, 2006 0:00:38 GMT -5
I believe in God so this next statement my seem weird, but I am glade that you are actually doing something and no just complaining about it Dragon of Heaven (bravo).
You are welcome and I would be glade to listen to any other arguments that you have as long as you keep them courteous and I will try to do the same.
I have a question vertigo, are there any problems equivalent to what is going on with the USA pledge in the UK? If so are you taking actions against it?
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