snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Nov 14, 2006 8:52:10 GMT -5
A concept missing from those of religious persuasions is that the "law of Moses" was written by a man (most likely not someone named Moses, by the way). If man wrote those laws and those philosophies then it is within mankind to follow them without the concept of a god to back them up. I do not believe that it is inherrent in man to be "evil" but that it is more likely for people to be good to others for the sactity of life. Or would those philosophies have ever been written?
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Post by guerrillasaint on Nov 14, 2006 22:58:13 GMT -5
I disagree with some of the statements but not all.
Yea some people use religion so that they don't have to think about life. [Probably like some people are atheist because they don't want to live by the rules of other belief systems.] Still, I don't really think those people truly believe in the god they are worshiping because it requires some though and action to believe in my God. It says in the bible (I'm+ paraphrasing) that faith without actions is dead. God doesn't expect blind faith from you.
Now I don't know how the author could say that it takes 5% to have faith in God and whatever that other percent was to be an atheist. I think whoever wrote that was just pulling stuff out there but to get people to pay attention. Still people have degrees of faith. Some people believe in the existence of God but doubt that he can do anything for them. Or will do anything for them. So they believe he exist but don't believe in his power. [Which (in relation to my God) is pretty arrogant to think your problem is too big for the one who made you. ]
I think it is interesting that someone theorized that spirituality is necessary for society. I am not surprised that someone came up with that conclusion because God made us for him so it would make sense that he would make that a part of our psyche. Even if you don't believe in a God I believe that you worship something whether it be the people, things, ideas, ways of life, or animals. We all are searching for something to make us whole and fulfilled at one time or another. Sometimes what we find is a band-aid and sometime it is the solution.
You said that some people want to feel like they aren't alone and that there will always be someone there. Well I think we all want that. No one no matter how antisocial they are wants company of some sort.
About Gay marriage and abortion. I think it is wrong but I don't want to vote about it. I don't really want to condemn anyone for their choices. I think it is just a ploy by politicians to get people to vote one way or the other. It is a smoke and mirrors ploy to get US citizen to get off bigger problems that we have. My dad used this analogy to explain the situation "the house needs new pipes but we are voting on what color the wall will be."
If there wasn't a god to say that being gay was wrong then it wouldn't be wrong and it won't have any negative effects on anyone. Creating a God to keep people in line wouldn't work forever and I think if that was the reason why gods came about then the idea would have died a long time ago.
Also being a Christian doesn't mean that I disbelieve in science. Science isn't a God it is a method to get to a certain conclusion. I don't believe in all the theories that float around the science community and I believe others. Heck to be honest I think it is rather interesting. If you truly think that Christians choice either God or science then I think your idea of Christians is skewed. I am human and we all have layers. I can't be defined so easily.
Religion doesn't make people be nice. Religion is just a way to go about something. Some Christians are freaking mean. Some people who are not Christians are the nicest people you'll ever meet. But if you get to the core of what God is talking about he doesn't just want to you be nice because others where nice to us but to be kind because that is what we do.
Well peace till next time.
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Nov 15, 2006 15:45:40 GMT -5
Yes Guerrillasaint we all have layers. And yes being Christian dose not make you nice. I live on a campus where I am the only one not catholic. Many of these people are vengeful and hateful but there are also some very kind people here.
I would say that it takes the same amount of faith to believe in God or to be an atheist.
We all want to be loved we all want to be liked. We all want a safety net, these are truths but the difference is that we don't forsake what we believe simply for the fact that we want to believe. Instead we bind our selves by reason and science in the attempt to find proof and thusly have something to base our beliefs off of. Where as all a Christian needs to do is simply read the bible and do what the pastor tells you to. We cant do that, we have to be individuals. There is no book there is no pastor there is far more we have to work on. It doesn't take more faith its just more difficult.
If for no other reason I would say that people believe in God because it is easier than the alternative. I am not saying that believing in God is simple but it is easier than being atheistic, and no where near as difficult as being an agnostic. I have been all three.
As for the idea of God dieing out, well they have died out. One after another the Gods of old keep dieing out. Do you see any one worshiping Zeus on the street corner.... No you don't. The Gods have changed for the very reason that peoples ideas change. Now we are in an era where the actual Idea of even having Gods is beginning to die out. For example I would have to say this board and the exponentially raising population of atheists proves this easily.
Religion is man kinds self congratulatory practice with its Gods as scape goats and Messiahs.
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Post by nonny on Nov 16, 2006 1:40:57 GMT -5
is it really "faith" in evolution and what not if it's proven? That is like needing faith for the world to be round....
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Post by guerrillasaint on Nov 16, 2006 22:40:12 GMT -5
You know Dragon I agree with you Atheist and Christians have the same amount of faith in what he or she believes in.
Yes my life is easier because I believe in God. Not because I am afraid not to believe or because I don't use reason it is because I have help when i have no idea what to do. The creator of the world is there to help me out and listen to what I need and give me advice. I don't have to just rely on my limited abilities, I have a God that guides me. I was watching wife swap and I was so happy to know God because he just makes me smarter by knowing him. I don't have to take years learning life lessons I can just bypass a lot of life's hardships because of the teachings God has set out.
As you said reason does bind you. There is so much more to this life then what you can see. Sometimes people can be so bent on what is logical to them that they miss what the truth is. Life isn't always logical or reasonable. Just because you think it isn't logical doesn't mean that it is impossible. (open mindset goes two ways)
Not every pastor is saying the right thing. So you always have to know what you believe and know God's nature. Which can be learned by the bible or you can be gotten directly from God. It also requires faith. I can call myself a Christian but if I don't have faith in God and what he says he can do I am just going through the motions.
To be honest I wouldn't believe in God if I didn't have any proof of his existence. Like I said he came to me when I was a little girl.
Yes a lot of gods have died out but the idea of a god has not died out. Also my God has not died out also the need to worship has not died out.
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Dec 10, 2006 12:10:37 GMT -5
Dragon:
I agree, but religions cannot seem to function at all without them was what I was pointing out. It is within human nature to find faults in other's beliefs, traditions and lifestyles that we have the urge to erradicate them. But when it comes to religion, in particular, it would seem that we (as human beings) have a need to create an enemy when religion is, for the most part, designed to bring peace to mankind.
But has it ever?
If you look at Taoists v. Buddhists, (what seems like) Christians v. everyone else at times, and Jews v. Muslims you see an extensive pattern of disagreement that escalates into war. Personally, it's a pathetic pattern that people want to ignore because their god is the one and only god that should be worshipped. They are so blinded by their beliefs that they ignore what history has to offer.
I'm tired so forgive me if this one is a bit off the mark lol.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Dec 30, 2006 23:27:14 GMT -5
What does history have to offer? And again how can you trust history? If you use the same principles you used with the Bible (man being fallible etc.) then how can you trust what historians of the past say? Heck historians today?
I think some people use religion as a mask to do what they want. If they truly practiced their religion then this world may be more peaceful. Human's motto seems to be "it's all about me and I could careless about what you need... Unless it helps me"
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dan
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 116
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Post by dan on Feb 9, 2007 16:44:46 GMT -5
I am at my parents this weekend and mentioned something about solidsquid and his opinions last night. This morning my dad told me about a book he is reading, "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist." He told me the author states that it takes 5% faith to believe in Christian science and 23% faith to believe in the atheist point of view of evolution. I was dying of laughter but kept a straight face none the less. 1) " Christian science?" Umm... isn't it either science or it's not? This should have been worded differently - instead of "Christian science," it should have been, "the Biblical model of science." The idea is that the scientific evidence is in favor of the Bible's claims about the universe rather than the atheistic model. If evidence and reason support Hypothesis 1 better than Hypothesis 2, then you could say it takes "more" faith to believe Hypothesis 2. This was the main point - that Christianity is supported by reason and evidence better than athiesm.
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Feb 13, 2007 12:41:48 GMT -5
Can't believe I missed your post guerrillasaint...
History has to offer other opinions on varied matters. History changes as information is uncovered and most historians accept this fact and move with it, using it to show what happened and often why. I trust history that is backed up by research and good logic. History is never finalized. When new information is found because new questions are asked by new generations of historians.
This is the problem with the thinking that the Gospels are some kind of history. It's been shown that they are not. That they are Jewish Midrash - a form of writing puting morality lessons into a readable message. To think that the Gospels can stand alone when they are all written based on each other is like poor text books that used each other to write their next edition which creates and duplicates profound errors. (Which reminds me about this aspect of life: a good number of historical tales in grade school text books are there to indoctrinate people into their culture and are rarely based on reality - this is what the Gospels are as well.)
Semantics... it's science or it's not, period.
No it's not, haven't you read and listened to what the science based arguments are on this site? Produce evidence that the world was created in six 24 hour days.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Feb 22, 2007 18:04:59 GMT -5
Your clam that the gospel is incorrect and invented but I know that gospel is true because it plays itself out in my life.(figuratively) Not only that but it is backed up in the Old Testament. Your proof of that the gospels are unhistorical is based on human understanding. I have the luxury to consult God about the gospel and since I do consult Him then I know that it is based in His truth, which is infallible and constant Human historical accounts have to be improved upon because it is from human for humans. The Gospel no matter what language it is written in no matter how many times it is reinterpreted will always have the same message . There is not need to improve upon that message. It was right the first time I would stake my life and eternal soul on it. Are you prepared to stake yours?
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