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Post by necroshine on Nov 21, 2006 6:44:22 GMT -5
Now that the elections are over, we now have a new amendment to the Tennessee constitution. We now are officially against gay marriage. Even if you get married in another state and move to tn your marriage is null while your are here. I’m for equal rights for everyone. And I had to send a letter to the editor after seeing all the hate mail in the paper from people and preachers downing gay people. Yea love one another. That is what the church is all about. Give me a break. I thought I would share my thoughts with you. Keep in mind writing is not my strong spot in life. And of course I had no help in doing this. So if it sounds like I’m from a red neck place, its because I am. Here is the letter let me know what you think.
I truly have a question, what parts of the bible do you want to follow? I have read all the hate mail to the editor in the last few days in the paper. I noticed that most people will point to the bible to justify the hate they have for gay people. They say that Leviticus 20:13 is the reason why gay people should not get married. That is wrong. The bible does not say that gay people should not be married. What it says is that you should kill gay people. “…they shall surely be put to death...” Are all you people that are against gay marriage because of this going to go out and kill gay people? I hope you don’t, But god wants you to. I don’t see anyone upholding that in the bible. You all just twist it around to what you want it to say. The bible also says that adulterers should be put to death. How many of you have cheated on someone? Do you feel like you should be killed for that? God does. How many people have been born out of wedlock? God says that you will go to hell, not only you but seven generations of your children will also go to hell. how about slaves. The old testament says that you can have a slave as long as you get them from anther village. But yet we made laws against slaves. I think that is a step in the right direction. I’m so glad that we don’t follow the bible on those issues. The bible is wrong on many issues. now I have also heard people say that the coming of jesus changed all that. If that is true then take down the 10 commandments you hold dear. That is in the Old Testament. But people still want to put them in the court house. Please stop picking and choosing what you like in the bible. If the old testament is correct no woman should ever speak in the church and I don’t want to see any woman walk in a church without your head being covered. And if you don’t know, if any of you have eaten lobster or oysters you are going to hell along with the sinners that wear mixed fibers for clothing. They are just as much an abomination to god as a man lying with a man unless there are different degrees of abomination. You can not go on a book that was written thousands of years ago for laws today. If that was the case then the interracial marriage would still be illegal in Tennessee. It was in the constitution of the state. Lucky that was overturned. And this new amendment should be also. Shame on all who voted for hate if that’s all the bible is good for then why have it? When the bible contradicts itself look at which side people get on. We should treat everyone with love and respect. Isn’t that the way you want people to treat you?
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Nov 22, 2006 0:13:49 GMT -5
There are 34 reasons that you can be executed in the Bible. I will list some of them here (because homosexuality is as upsurd as some of these): - Gathering sticks on the sabbath
- Touching a mountain
- Any stranger touching the congregation's tabernacle
- Cursing or hitting your mother or father
- Being a stubborn child
- A woman (specifically women) found to not be a virgin on her wedding day
- Your ox gores someone
- Sacrifice to another god than the Bible's
- Worship another god
- Being a false prophet (which is most of the Bible's prophets!)
- Blasphemy
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Post by necroshine on Nov 22, 2006 6:07:35 GMT -5
good ones. i knew most of them. i didn't know about the ox. do you have the whole list? i would love to see it.
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Nov 23, 2006 10:00:48 GMT -5
Didn't mark all of them in the book I'm reading, but I'll list them as they are in the book: There are others but not listed in the book I'm reading. But this is listed in The Encycolpedia of Biblical Errancy by C. Dennis McKinsey.
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Post by necroshine on Nov 27, 2006 19:52:12 GMT -5
ok guys, i got in the paper and the hate mail has started. thought i would share but i will admit that i have only gotten one email. thought that would be good for at least a couple but i don't think it will happen. too bad. i have this listed as what is his email and what i said back.
Me: Thank you for your response to my letter. Let me explain myself more and allow me to respond to some points you make.
Him: For one thing it looks like the people writing those letters are popping off with the first thing that comes to mind, and not searching the scriptures. I don’t believe they are trying to stir up hate.
Me: If you don’t do any research and just pop off what comes to mind, then all you are going to do is stir up hate. How can you be against people’s human rights and not show hate? Doesn’t everyone have the same rights? That is what our constitution tries to uphold. Everyone is created equal. If your god doesn’t think so I’m sorry for that. At least our forefathers had the concept that all men are equal. I think we need to keep that thought today. Would you like to have the usa the way we had it with women that have no rights and blacks still being owned by other humans? That is not a way of life and I thought we as a nation got past all that but it don’t look like it.
Him: And as far as the Old Testament is concerned it was nailed to the cross with Jesus, And as for the Ten Commandments we are told to obey nine of them in the New Testament, (Romans the 13th chapter being one place). Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy is not because Jesus made the first day of the week the day to worship God.
Me: But then why would jesus say that I did not come here to change the laws but to uphold them? Anyway I’m not going to get into what the bible says on this issue. You can show me parts that do away with old laws and I can show you parts where it says to keep the laws. To say that the bible doesn’t have contradictions in it is crazy. You just showed one. If god is unchanging then why would he change his stance on the 10 commandments that he gave his people? God himself says in the bible that he is unchanging but yet he changes his mind a lot in the pages of the bible.
Him: Now as for homosexuality. The New Testament does condemn it: some of the scriptures being Romans 1: 24-32, 1Timothy 1: 8-10, Matthew 19:4-6, and 1Corinthians 6:9-11 tells they will not inherit the kingdom of heaven along with a long list of other sinners.
Me: Have you ever committed any of the other sins that god says is an abomination? Then will you not also go to hell? I know god will forgive the ones that ask but then why call it an abomination if he is going to forgive you anyway? If he is going to forgive gay people then what is the problem? If he can forgive why can’t people do the same?
Him: The New Testament also teaches us that we are to love everyone; however we are not to Condon their sinning but try to turn them from their sin and towards Jesus. The problem that is causing the stir with the homosexual community is that they are wanting everyone to recognize there marriages as legal unions. We as Christians and believers in the New Testament teaching can’t do that.
Me: As I said in the letter, the bible says nothing about gay marriage. You can not take what the bible says about killing gay people and say it means that they can not get married. If you are going to uphold the bible then you have to kill gay people in order to do what the bible says. If you do not kill them you are putting up with the actions of the gay community.
Him: There is a Heaven and a Hell and all sinners will go there, and God will be the judge of that.
Me: I don’t know that there is a heaven and hell. Why should an all loving god create such places heaven or hell? Both are equally absurd. An all loving god tormenting you forever in a pit of fire and brimstone is just as odd as an all loving god making it too easy for you to live and spoiling you. You do not spoil your children by giving them everything they want. You want them to know the value of hard work. If this is a better way then why wouldn’t god continue this action? How do you think your children would turn out if you gave into everything they wanted? But that is the exact idea of heaven.
Him: But look at homosexuality another way; leave the Bible out of it. It is against the natural design of our bodies.
Me: How so? Men do have a g-spot in the rectum. If you massage your prostate you will ejaculate. Try it. Look up the location on the net if you don’t know. Besides men have seen over 1000 species of animals having homosexual intercourse, if that isn’t the description of natural what is? Have you ever looked into this issue past what the bible tells you? If you did you would see a lot more info than you know now. That is why I say the Christians are wrong when they just spit out what is told to them without doing any research on their own.
Him: Nature would have us together as male and female, when have you ever heard to two males breeding and creating an offspring in any species. Or two females breeding and producing offspring. It hasn’t happened and never will.
Me: Earthworms are hermaphrodites along with many other animals and plants. Also god has made people with both sexes. Why would a god do this if he didn’t want anyone to partake in gay relationships? If you are born with both parts which sex can you go out with? Tell me why would god make a human that has both sexes? He has if you think god makes everyone on earth.
Him: I do treat people the way I want to be treated; all sinners included not just my Christian brothers and sisters.
Me: I’m happy to hear that. I hope you did not vote for the amendment. Everyone should have equal rights in America. That is what makes us such a great place to live. Equal rights for all.
Him: The Bible speaks to everything you mentioned if you just study it and learn the truth.
Me: Thanks I have read the whole bible and that is why I don’t agree with any of it. On a personal note I don’t see how anyone can agree with the bible if they have read the whole thing and understood what it is saying. Did you know that it is ok to have a slave as long as you go to another village to get the slave? Did you know that it is an abomination to eat lobster, oysters and clams? Ever eat one yourself? You’re going to hell along will every gay person on earth. Did you know that women that wear men’s clothing will go to hell? So if a wife likes her husbands oversized shirt to wear, she will go to hell. Did you know that wearing blended fabrics is an abomination? That means the linen and wool jacket you may have will send you right to hell. Now you might be thinking that part of the bible doesn’t apply to you and your religion. Aren’t you supposed to uphold all of god’s commandments? That is why I say people pick and choose what they want to follow in the bible just as soon as something becomes inconvenient for their life.
Him: I think that those people writing the letters in the paper should do some more studying before they fire of a letter that would clear up a lot of confusion. I hope this helps answer your questions.
Me: I feel the same way. People should not just openly support hate. That to me would be like supporting the Nazi movement. More people do need to read for themselves besides just spitting out what a preacher tells them. I find that happens far too often. I hope you well in life and thank you for your letter. Feel free to keep the line of communication open. I look forward to any replies. Best regards.
how about it guys? do you think i was too ruff tellling him to gry to get himself off with the prostate? lol
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Dec 10, 2006 11:50:52 GMT -5
I loved the prostate comment myself. It was great ;D
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Post by nonny on Dec 30, 2006 0:30:30 GMT -5
*useing my bad habit of not reading the entire thread!*
I don't believe in gay marriage, I do believe gays should be able to share a life but the chirstians have a point it's thier thing..who wants it anyways? Screw them...share a life and don't waste money on the priest to help you do it!
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Post by necroshine on Dec 30, 2006 13:38:21 GMT -5
Nonny its not about the Christian version of marriage. It’s the legal laws and the tax breaks that come into the matter. Something you might not have thought about. And I hope this will change the way you think about this issue. If you have a wife and she goes into the hospital and is fixing to die you have to be family to see them. If you can not get married you can not say you are family and there for you will not be able to say goodbye to your loved one if you are not married. Also the tax breaks the married get is another issue. Also insurance is another issue that married people get a break on. So you see this has nothing to do with what the Christians would have you think it is. When has it ever been?
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Post by nonny on Dec 30, 2006 16:26:18 GMT -5
no hun, I do believe that gay couples should have those rights I just don't think as a country we should call that marriage because whatever happened to seperation of church and state?
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Post by necroshine on Dec 30, 2006 16:43:34 GMT -5
Ok cool I thought you was against the idea. Now I have to point out this. If you call it marriage or you call it common law or life partners what is the difference? If all get the same rules then why should you care what it is called? If they get the same rights then why not call it the same thing? And about the separation of church and state. That don’t apply here we are talking about something the state gets behind and has laws. I don’t see how this has anything to do with the church other than they are the ones that don’t like it. I know this marriage started in the church but its passed the church now. Now it is in the laws in so many ways. And as humans we all should have access to the same laws and protections. Nothing to do with the church. Unless I’m wrong about something if so please point it out. oh glad to see someone is posting here now it has been sloooooooow
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Post by nonny on Jan 1, 2007 18:11:09 GMT -5
Because one of the major reasons citizens on the country don't want gay marriage is because it's wrong in the bible and marraige is between a man and women....well then screw them don't make it a marraige. And don't let thier believes determine our laws. That is what i believe...and i'm tried of being ied to over that seperation of chruch and state crap.
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dan
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 116
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Post by dan on Jan 12, 2007 18:51:45 GMT -5
Some of the death penalty violations in the Bible you guys brought up are over-simplified or wrongly understood. For instance:
The Owner of an Ox Who Kills a Human
You made it sound as if anyone's ox kills a human, the owner automatically gets the death penalty. That's not what happens at all. Here's the Scripture passage:
"If an ox gores a man or a woman to death, then the ox shall surely be stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be acquitted. But if the ox tended to thrust with its horn in times past, and it has been made known to his owner, and he has not kept it confined, so that it has killed a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned and its owner also shall be put to death" (Exodus 21:28-29).
Now that's a different story altogether!
"Touching a Mountain"
It wasn't just touching a mountain, it was a particular mountain in a specific situation. The God of Israel himself had descended on Mount Sinai, and He told the people not to touch the mountain because it would have been irreverent and presumptous. God wanted the people to understand the seriousness of approaching God, and His incredible power, so that they would have a proper, heathly respect for God and not sin (Exod. 20:20).
"Cursing in General"
The passage you referenced was Lev. 24:11-14, which says nothing about "cursing in general," but cursing the name of God.
"Gathering Sticks on the Sabbath"
What made this so bad is that it would be a direct and intentional violation of God's command. If one person did it and got away with it, pretty soon everyone would start doing it, and then the whole society would no longer have any respect for God and just do what they want. God set up a justice system that was swift and effective, so that sin would not be tolerated and sinners who were punished would become an example to the rest of society.
"Rape Victim and Rapist"
You're absolutely correct that the rapist gets the death penalty, but definitely not the rape victim. Here's the specific passage:
"If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor's wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you. But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter" (Deut. 22:23-26).
The first situation when both the man and woman are stoned isn't even a rape, because the woman consents. But if the woman is actually raped, then she is not punished.
The death penalty seems an entirely reasonable punishment for some of the other crimes you mentioned:
Kidnapping Premeditated murder Murder witnessed by two or more people
The problem you have with many of the remaining crimes that were punishable by the death penalty seem only to be a matter of opinion as to how bad they really are:
Cursing your mother or father - Lev 20:9 Striking your mother or father - Exod 21:15 Being stubborn or rebellious to your parents - Deut 21:18-21 Beastiality - Exod 22:19 Adultry with your neighbor's wife - Lev 20:10 Adultry with your father's wife - Lev 20:11 Adultry with your daughter-in-law - Lev 20:12 Adultry with your mother-in-law - Lev 20:14 Homosexuality - Lev 20:13 Daughter of a priest becoming a whore - Lev 21:9 Your ox gores someone to death - Exod 21:19 Being a meduim or wizard or witch - Lev 20:27 & Exod 22:18 Sacrifice to any other god - Exod 22:20 Worship another god - Deut 17:2-5 Blasphemy - Lev 24:16 Telling someone to follow another god - Deut 13:2 & 5-10 Being a false prophet - Deut 18:20
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Jan 12, 2007 23:48:21 GMT -5
Getting us back to the topic at hand, Why do you think it is wrong to be gay, commit a homosexual action, or legalize lesbian/ gay adoption? (notice I am asking you not your religion dan)
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dan
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 116
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Post by dan on Jan 13, 2007 18:22:47 GMT -5
Getting us back to the topic at hand, Why do you think it is wrong to be gay, commit a homosexual action, or legalize lesbian/ gay adoption? (notice I am asking you not your religion dan) Before answering that, let me ask you a question: how could you classify anything as "right" or "wrong" in a world where God does not exist? In an atheistic world, there would be no universal higher morality that imposes itself on us. To answer your question: I believe homosexuality is wrong because of my belief in the Bible. In addition to the verses you already brought up, there are others that lay down the line as far as homosexuality is concerned: "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites...will inherit the kingdom of God" (I Cor. 6:9-10). "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful" (Romans 1:26-27). But your question was whether I can prove homosexuality is wrong without using any religion. There are some clues that point in that direction. Homosexuality is contrary to nature: not only biologically, but socially. Our bodies are designed precisely for heterosexuality, and procreation can take place only in that situation. So whoever our Designer was, it seems that He intended sexual activity to take place between a man and a woman only, because He obviously "encourages" it above homosexuality by limiting procreation to heterosexuality only. Homosexuality is also unnatural socially: it goes against the proper family structure that consists of a father, mother, and children. A family with two fathers or two mothers is a clear distortion of the way things should be. Further evidence that homosexuality is wrong is the natural consequences that often result from it: contraction of deadly STDs. You might counter by saying, "STDs are spread through heterosexual activity also." That's true, but it is highly unlikely that it would spread at all in the first place if everyone followed the Biblical model of sexual intercourse between a married couple only. So either way, the evidence points to the fact that the Biblical model of sex in marriage is the only right way to do it.
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Post by necroshine on Jan 14, 2007 7:41:19 GMT -5
Dan did yoy read this thread? Did you read that I have already answered what you just put down in the letter to the other guy who emailed me saying the same thing? If our bodies was not made for that type of sex then why do men have g spots on the ass? Complete contradiction don’t you think? If Homosexuality is contrary to nature: then why do animals have gay sex? We have seen them do it. If it goes against the proper family structure that consists of a father, mother, and children. I am married and I have no children that should also go against family structure.
Why? Tell us how std’s would not be here if it was not for gay people? That is one of the most stupid statements I have heard in a while.
Nothing you have said is evidence of anything but your own bigotry
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