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gensis
Jan 24, 2007 18:06:26 GMT -5
Post by nonny on Jan 24, 2007 18:06:26 GMT -5
I've been reading the torah for my religions class and came across: "26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'" in gensis......
either god talks in the third person...or there is more than one.
I found that interesting. I'll add more as i find them.
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gensis
Jan 25, 2007 13:54:09 GMT -5
Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 25, 2007 13:54:09 GMT -5
Yes the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
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gensis
Jan 25, 2007 15:43:15 GMT -5
Post by nonny on Jan 25, 2007 15:43:15 GMT -5
....if you refered to your self in three parts poeple would think you were crazy wouldn't they?
Actually, that is from the torah/old testament. And you may find this shocking but back then(before they got talked into other stuff) poeple believed there to be more than one god. And Jhwh(god) even said when speaking to abraham and makeing the covenant, that yes there are other gods but you abraham and your desendents should only worshipe me, and i shall take care of you.
THat was a paraphrase. But anyways if you are going to base your life on this stuff maybe you should read it and learn. Judaism and christianity are montheisms yes...but only to a point. They believe(or used to for christianity) that there are more than one god they just respect one over the others.
And no where in the orginal 5 parts of the bible that were given to moses on mt. sanin(sp?) does it mention the trinity....that was basically in my humble opinion made up in the new testament only to support jesus being the son/messiah. And based on the jewish definiation of messiah..jesus isn't.
And currently i'm liking judaism...and am no longer truly atheist just extremely confused. But I know for sure there has to be something, but I don't know if it's this god everyone is talking about, and I do not under any circumstances believe that jesus is the son of god or the messiah...if he was then you couldn't try and get poeple to convert by telling them are sinners, because if they are then so are you....
rant over.
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gensis
Jan 26, 2007 6:38:19 GMT -5
Post by necroshine on Jan 26, 2007 6:38:19 GMT -5
WHAT?! You are kidding right? Come on. Why does there “have to be something”? I see no evidence pointing to any god. Besides it boils down to one question. Which one of the 60000 is correct? If 59999 are wrong the one you choose will also be wrong. Now if you think aliens seeded life here fine but not an all powerful god.
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gensis
Jan 26, 2007 11:47:52 GMT -5
Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Jan 26, 2007 11:47:52 GMT -5
Necroshine please tell me your not a scientologist!
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gensis
Jan 26, 2007 13:36:29 GMT -5
Post by nonny on Jan 26, 2007 13:36:29 GMT -5
I didn't say and all powerful god. call it an energy if you will, like in taoism.
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gensis
Jan 26, 2007 13:38:58 GMT -5
Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 26, 2007 13:38:58 GMT -5
God is like an Egg. You have the shell, the yoke, and the white. All the Egg all separate parts. All equal.
No I don't find it shocking that people believe in more than one god. And when God refers to other gods He is talking about false gods. On a number of occasions God did punish the Jews for their worship of false gods. He even turned his back on them for such things. As you probably know when Moses was on Mt. Sinai they where making a false god (the golden calf).
Don't be confused. Like I said before when he talks about false god(s) it usually shows up in lower case and or in the plural form. God is never written in the plural and is always capitalized. In the Torah they call God Yahweh(Jhwh) (right?) that is probably how they separated the true God from the false gods.
Jesus is the Word of the Lord. Ge 15:1-2 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. (2) And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?(KJV) Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(KJV) Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.(kjv)
Just keep on searching you will solidify your beliefs in your own time.
Are you talking about Jesus or are you talking about people like me telling you about Jesus? One thing Jesus did say was he was coming for those who needing healing and if you think you are ok then you don't really want him. Now as for me coming in the name of Jesus. I don't start off a conversation with “you are a sinner” (angry face shaking the bible on my soap box of redemption). Those who do, have social issues. If you listen to Jesus’s message he mostly is talking about love and faith. His actions are not one of a condemner but of a redeemer.
Still when you say "because if they are then so are you...." what do you mean? why? Who are you talking to?
Also all Christian’s that know what they are talking about know they are sinners. If they say they aren't then they are a little full of themselves. That is why we need Jesus in the first place because he covers all sin... Past, Present, Future.
If you truly want to find God you will find him.
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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gensis
Jan 26, 2007 20:05:09 GMT -5
Post by GodsAreUs on Jan 26, 2007 20:05:09 GMT -5
Hey Nonny
I know exactly what you’re talking about. And to a point, I agree. But the “energy” you speak of is, to me, a completely tangible yet utterly indescribable feeling of “spirituality.” It’s what makes the sun feel warm on my face. It makes the air smell clean in spring right after the snow melts. It makes beer taste good. It makes the grass grow. It makes one vibrate when one hears a good song, ad nauseum.
For me, it’s what I perceive to be the things that make life worth living. I think that’s what it is for damn-near everyone. I can’t help but believe “spirituality” in some form is needed for most minds at this point in our evolutionary place. I use “spirituality” for lack of a better term. I don’t believe in “spirits” or any one omnipotent god. It’s really much more complex than that for me. Hell, it’s different for everyone.
Some choose Christianity because they feel it’s “right.” That works for any other “religion” out there. But most followers fail to cognate that all religions were born, formed, molded, passed on, etc… by humans. And with that in mind, all religions are little more than one’s private interpretation of what they’re told. A case of “if you can feel it, you’re in like Flynn!”
Faith fails because it is believing what you’re told. Skepticism works because I feel one of the important tenets of a fulfilling life is to never stop questioning—never stop learning—never ever think you know an absolute truth, because truth is utterly subjective based on an individuals unique experiences and point-of-reference (and a myriad of other factors).
For me, compassion for other humans, helping people when needed, and sucking up as much knowledge and as many differing viewpoints is the way to go. It’s the best purpose for life I can think of. And I’m pretty happy with there I’ve been and where I’m going in my 39 years on this planet.
Thanks for letting me carry on.
Peace
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gensis
Jan 27, 2007 19:13:25 GMT -5
Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 27, 2007 19:13:25 GMT -5
My faith in God in not just believing what I am told. No one told me to believe in God. I believe in him because he came to me. My faith isn't based on others it is based on my walk with God. And I don't think that you should believe everything you are told but to find out for yourself what the truth is. And the truth isn't subjective. Opinions are subjective. The truth is the truth it shouldn't be bendable. If it was bendable how could you trust it?
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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gensis
Jan 28, 2007 10:49:14 GMT -5
Post by GodsAreUs on Jan 28, 2007 10:49:14 GMT -5
My faith in God in not just believing what I am told. No one told me to believe in God. I believe in him because he came to me. My faith isn't based on others it is based on my walk with God. And I don't think that you should believe everything you are told but to find out for yourself what the truth is. And the truth isn't subjective. Opinions are subjective. The truth is the truth it shouldn't be bendable. If it was bendable how could you trust it? My post was for Nonny. It’s her thread. But since you insisted upon replying to my post, I will return the favor. The irony dripping from your Christianity is so heavy it pools on the virtual floor here. In fact from the timbre of your posts, you’ve created an ideological river that I feel compelled to cross—or dam, if you will. My faith in God in not just believing what I am told. No one told me to believe in God. Not just? So indeed what you are told is a large part of it. In fact, it’s the seed by which your faith has grown into your own version of Christianity. Were you never indoctrinated with the very idea of God, what might you have for yourself? Anything? Nothing? All of the above? Beware that slippery slope. And go read carefully my post again. I think there are a few important points you missed or misinterpreted. I believe in him because he came to me. My faith isn't based on others it is based on my walk with God. And I don't think that you should believe everything you are told but to find out for yourself what the truth is. And the truth isn't subjective. Opinions are subjective. The truth is the truth it shouldn't be bendable. If it was bendable how could you trust it? A person blind from birth has no concept of color. We are all mind-blind from birth save for the needed instructions that keep our vital organs functioning. After that, anything else is knowledge we gain by consciously or sub-consciously listening, looking, tasting, touching, thinking, musing, processing, dreaming, etc… God then came to you. How did you know to call Him God? Whereby did you assign that name to what you believe? Your empty mind was filled with those terms at some point. And the way you dress your posts with bible verses begs the irony of your statements and then some. As for truth? Look it up in a dictionary, then forget what you read, because “truth” is only that by which the self assigns validity to a given idea. If that were not so, vis-à-vis if truth were an absolute constant throughout the collective minds of every thinking creature, there would never be doubt. But doubt clearly exists. You doubt I am right in my viewpoint. I doubt you are right in yours. Yet we both feel we have a handle on who is more “right.” The answer is: cupcakes taste good… unless you don’t like sweets. Do you understand where I’m coming from yet? Trust and truth are two different things. The former is earned, the latter is learned. And both can be shattered by new evidence. Mark Twain said it best: “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Never stop questioning what you know—or think you know to be truth. Hold dear what feels right to you, but always be open to the idea that you might be wrong. The truth evolves. Change is the only absolute.
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dan
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 116
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gensis
Jan 28, 2007 19:54:37 GMT -5
Post by dan on Jan 28, 2007 19:54:37 GMT -5
As for truth? Look it up in a dictionary, then forget what you read, because “truth” is only that by which the self assigns validity to a given idea. Not at all, truth means "objective reality." The fact that the earth is a globe is true, not because many people believe it, but because it is reality. The fact that the planet Mars exists is true whether or not someone believes it. If everyone who believed that Mars existed died off, the idea that Mars exists would still be true. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary (2004) defines truth as: "the real state of things: FACT; the body of real events or facts: ACTUALITY; agreement with fact or reality: CORRECTNESS." The idea that the God of Christianity exists is either true or false, and no one's belief will affect that either way.
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gensis
Jan 28, 2007 21:33:27 GMT -5
Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 28, 2007 21:33:27 GMT -5
Thanks Dan. I feel the same way.
Let me tell you why I believe in God. (this may seem strange)When I was a very little girl about ages of 3-5 and I was in my parent’s TV room/den. It don’t know what I was doing but my mom was in the kitchen. I remember not being tall enough to look over the cabinets. I small hot air balloon with a bear in it and right then I knew it was God. I see it as him just introducing himself and at that very moment I accepted him as God. Then I went right back to what I was doing. It wasn't a true exchange of words like someone talking to me. I have found that I don’t need to use words to talk to God even now. So that is why I believe. (Yes I know that is a very strange story about God but I was a toddler not even in school.) So I have known of the existence of God for the past 18-20. My relationship with God has been growing since then. I didn't learn everything I know of God from the Bible. When I was a kid I didn’t even read the Bible. Only when I was in church. (most of the time I was drawing something. For the longest time I thought that church was for grown-ups) Some of the things I came to understand was from him just telling me. I used to talk to him on the bus ride to school. I talked to him in my room at night. For a while I didn't talk to him at all. Now I guess you can say I am a more focused in my faith. I read the Bible, meditate, and pray daily. I live trough faith and trust him with many things. I can't say I always loved him but I cans say that for the majority of my life I have known him.
This is why I told you my faith is not blind, because on many occasions God has come through for me. On many occasions we have communicated. On many occasions I have felt and seen his presence. I can tell you many stories about my experiences with God.
Also when I post I usually don't use Bible verses unless someone makes a comment about the Bible or uses a verse first.
Also I ask God questions and not just things that I want. Heck he even asks you to ask him if you want to know.
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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gensis
Jan 28, 2007 23:13:12 GMT -5
Post by GodsAreUs on Jan 28, 2007 23:13:12 GMT -5
As for truth? Look it up in a dictionary, then forget what you read, because “truth” is only that by which the self assigns validity to a given idea. Not at all, truth means "objective reality." The fact that the earth is a globe is true, not because many people believe it, but because it is reality. The fact that the planet Mars exists is true whether or not someone believes it. If everyone who believed that Mars existed died off, the idea that Mars exists would still be true. Objective reality is that which is perceived by humans. Humans are incapable of being truly objective. Physical reality itself is in question when perception creates the reality we experience. Humans have a damn good handle on many aspects of physical reality—until we turn our attention away from what we’re looking at. Then all bets are off. The next person to walk into the observatory will see a star when the last one saw Mars. Matter is tangible. But the perception of it is as fluid and varied as there are waves in the ocean. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary (2004) defines truth as: "the real state of things: FACT; the body of real events or facts: ACTUALITY; agreement with fact or reality: CORRECTNESS." Truth in 2004 is defined as such. What constitutes a truth must be verified by the self. I have “faith” Mars exists, but until I stand on its surface and stare off into the supposedly orange, dusty expanse, faith is all I have. And it will sit in an open file in my mind until proven otherwise. Neither true nor false. Which brings us to: The idea that the God of Christianity exists is either true or false, and no one's belief will affect that either way. No. The idea that the God of Christianity exists is unverifiable. And no one’s belief will make it true. What one believes in one’s heart can’t count, as the individual reality therein is no more than one’s encapsulated version of “truth.” And there are many different “truths.” Verifiable physical reality notwithstanding.
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gensis
Jan 29, 2007 19:06:59 GMT -5
Post by necroshine on Jan 29, 2007 19:06:59 GMT -5
Necroshine please tell me your not a scientologist! hell no! when i mean nothing i mean nothing. there is nothing, does there have to be something? i don't see that there has to be any god. no god or gods have showed themselves to me. so there is no god.
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gensis
Jan 30, 2007 18:10:02 GMT -5
Post by nonny on Jan 30, 2007 18:10:02 GMT -5
uhm saint you do realise that your quotes trying to show me that is talks of the trinity only mention god the lord...not anything of a trinity. So uhm what was the point of that?
And I agree that it seems most faiths these days are just basically believe what your told and not researching anything for your self. Which is quite sad.
you mean "and god was the word" god is logos not logos is god. this verse was used to bring in the greeks. word is not a word like a noun it's Word as in the greek goddess Logos.
Also I said in the first five books, the ones that were given to moses. John is not one of those books so you have proven nothing, plus those quotes only talk of the lord god, god the father, and just god. They are all the same person. It's like when ever you read books such as the illiad, they give features to the names of poeple such as Achilles the swift. So these are simply traits of the same entity and not of three seperate ones.
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