Is Atheism a Religion?

[livinitup]

religion - a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith...

Through some of the posts i read people saying atheism is the absence of religion...However is not Atheism the belief that there is nothing (yes i know there is a break down of atheism so we dont need to go into that) but dont atheists have faith in that?

[Yaw]

No, atheism is not a religion. Of course, neither is theism.

The point here is that atheism simply refers to a group of ethical systems that have in common the lack of a belief in a deity. Similarly, theism refers to a group of religious systems that have the belief in a deity in common. So, theism is not a religion, but Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, etc., which are all theistic, are religions.

Note that there are atheistic religions (Mahayana Buddhism is technically atheistic). But you can't use a definition that defines a subset specifically to define the entire set.

[livinitup]

Ahh i got yas thanks
So say a Realist for example is a religion under atheism like Christianity is a religion under theism?

[nonny]

I'm one of the only poeple here that says that atheism is a religion because it is a belief system and that is what a religion is. But I always get ganged up on this issue ;D .

[Maverick]

livinitup

religion - a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith...

The fourth definition provided by Merriam-Webster, in case anyone is interested.

I reserve the right to comment on the definition of religion later. But now, I want to address the last part of livinitup's post.

livinitup

However is not Atheism the belief that there is nothing

No, atheism (no captial "a") is not a belief that there is nothing. Atheism itself makes no positive claims. It describes disbelief in the positive claim of a god's existence.

[Maverick]

nonbeliever said:

I'm one of the only poeple here that says that atheism is a religion because it is a belief system and that is what a religion is. But I always get ganged up on this issue ;D .

If atheism is a religion, as you propose that it is, will you please tell us what beliefs a person must have in order to be an atheist?

[livinitup]

Maverick said:

It describes disbelief in the positive claim of a god's existence.

I dont understand, so it supports a negative claim on God, IE he does exist but does not do anything... or?

If atheism is a religion, as you propose that it is, will you please tell us what beliefs a person must have in order to be an atheist?

please, cause im really kinda lost when it comes to atheism i guess. I always took it as disbelief in any higher being am i wrong in this thought?

[pieisgood]

I hate using dictionary definitions; those are opinions. Except for annoyingly long words, I don't. Maverick, you seem to contradict yourself. There's a whole other thread (I think it's "Incorrect definitions of atheism, continued", that describes inconsistancies in the dictionary's definition of religion). Now you turn to it and say that disagreeing with it makes you wrong?

I have to support Non on this one. I define religion as "your personal belief about a god"; so the only people who truly aren't religious are people who haven't even thought about this kind of thing. If Christianity is a religion, that would mean that Protestant, Lutheranism, Roman Catholic, all that stuff would be branches off that, and then each person's individual beliefs stem off of those, and as you get more and more specific there are more and more sub-religions.

So, Atheism, Theism, and agnostic(ism?) are the 2 main religions. Atheism stems into Mahayana Buddhism, outright "No God" atheism, etc. Theism stems into Christianity, Hindi, etc. Agnostic-ism stems into what you would do if you had to guess-- Atheism or Theism, and then what branch of that you would guess.

So, personally, I am an agnosticist with a guess of Atheism and I think it's an outright "No God" sort of thing. There are even more parts under that, but I won't get into it.

[Yaw]

livinitup

I dont understand, so it supports a negative claim on God, IE he does exist but does not do anything... or?

Well, there are actually three positions, which is what makes this a bit confusing. The theistic position is belief in a deity. Then there are two atheistic positions. The first, called implicit (or weak) atheism, is a disbelief in a deity. The second, called explicit (or strong) atheism, is a belief that there are no deities. So what we actually have is:

Theism -- positive claim
Implicit Atheism -- neutral claim
Explicit Atheism -- negative claim

Implicit atheism, which most atheists hold to, is more of a "We have no conclusion on the subject" position than a negative one. You will, however, find explicit atheists who say there is no god. Atheism is as varied as theism, really, so it's hard to state things about the entire community.

As for the religion question, atheism certainly contains some religions as subsets. Whether or not it is composed entirely of different religions really depends on one's definition of religion. We might want to get that definition worked out before delving into it.

[livinitup]

pieisgood said:

I have to support Non on this one. I define religion as "your personal belief about a god"; so the only people who truly aren't religious are people who haven't even thought about this kind of thing.

I have to support this definition... do we want to stand in agreement on this or delve further into defining it before we go on?

[pieisgood]

I'm agreed, but I think some other people might not.

[Yaw]

I think religion generally implies some sort of organization and agreed-on doctrine. I don't think you can have a religion of one.

[Maverick]

livinitup

I dont understand, so it supports a negative claim on God, IE he does exist but does not do anything... or?

As I said in another thread, deists believe in a god (making deism a subset of theism). Deists, and not atheists, believe that a god exists but that it does not interfere in human affairs.

livinitup

please, cause im really kinda lost when it comes to atheism i guess. I always took it as disbelief in any higher being am i wrong in this thought?

To clarify, the post in which I asked what beliefs a person must have to be an atheist was addressed to nonbeliever. But this time, you are correct. Atheism is a disbelief in a god.

[livinitup]

I see thanks alot Mav,


Yaw... do you mean a religion can not consist of just one member? Could I not go out and start my own religion and just state my own laws?

[AuntieSocial]

Yaw said:

Well, there are actually three positions, which is what makes this a bit confusing. The theistic position is belief in a deity. Then there are two atheistic positions. The first, called implicit (or weak) atheism, is a disbelief in a deity. The second, called explicit (or strong) atheism, is a belief that there are no deities. So what we actually have is:

Theism -- positive claim
Implicit Atheism -- neutral claim
Explicit Atheism -- negative claim

Yaw, you forgot Deism, which I think should be kept seperate from Theism -- the belief that there was a creator, but that creator is not involved in the day-to-day events of its creation. Similar to an absentee landlord. Deists are also a neutral claim, but on the side of a (no longer present) creator or an initial uncaused cause.