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Post by william on Jun 20, 2005 12:04:29 GMT -5
Then he loves us atheists! Thank you God! yes He does! |
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Post by william on Jun 20, 2005 12:11:11 GMT -5
Actualy there is an instance of Christ saying that It would be more bearable on the day of judgment for sodom and gomora than for those that had seen His miricles and refused to repent. there was also the "unpardenable sin" of wich the exact definition is disputed, but it isnt homosexuality.
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Post by necroshine on Jun 20, 2005 16:42:21 GMT -5
Actualy there is an instance of Christ saying that It would be more bearable on the day of judgment for sodom and gomora than for those that had seen His miricles and refused to repent. there was also the "unpardenable sin" of wich the exact definition is disputed, but it isnt homosexuality. if you don't know what it is how can you keep from doing it? that is just a bit on the silly side, don't you think? |
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Post by Griffey on Jun 20, 2005 23:54:00 GMT -5
Then he loves us atheists! Thank you God! Yeah, but we're not his favorites. God loves everyone, he just wouldn't throw us all a life preserver if we were drowning. And he'd make sure to give us a lecture about how we really should have cleaned our rooms before we got on the boat before we drowned entirely. That god guy...always has to have the last word. |
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Post by necroshine on Jun 23, 2005 5:11:52 GMT -5
Actualy there is an instance of Christ saying that It would be more bearable on the day of judgment for sodom and gomora than for those that had seen His miricles and refused to repent. there was also the "unpardenable sin" of wich the exact definition is disputed, but it isnt homosexuality. i have never seen jesus do a miricle have you? i don't think so. and if you don't know what the unpardenable sin is how do you know it isn't homosexuality? if its not that then what is it? not believeing in the first place? i can not see how that is a sin. but i guess it could be to you christains. |
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jun 25, 2005 0:30:55 GMT -5
There is a need for repentance. I guess I got ahead of myself because I was putting repentance with the acceptance of God. To me it usually comes with repentance.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jun 25, 2005 0:45:30 GMT -5
when Jesus came and died for our sins all of the things that the Jewish people had to go through to be forgiven of there sins were no longer needed.
At this point in time we can just accept God and give our life to him and ask for forgiveness and we will be forgiven.
Neco. you know how you keep saying that You will go to hell if you eat crab. In Acts God showed Peter a bunch of unkosher foods and told him he could eat it. All you need to do the reach the kingdom of heave is to come through the son.
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Post by necroshine on Jun 25, 2005 6:51:23 GMT -5
why would an unchanging god change? He made the rules for the jews so they could be forgiven but then this unchanging god, changed its mind. How is that possible?
Its not quite that easy. You have to give up logic and thinking for yourself. I like to question things in life. I can not turn a blind eye to the church and the contradictions in the bible.
Great you found another contradiction in the bible. Good for you. God says not to get that stuff then he turns around and tells someone that he can. Does this sound like the way a god should act? Or no matter what god does is just fine to you?
And the thing about coming through jesus to get into heaven is fine and dandy for you how about the other 70% on the earth that will go to hell because they don’t believe in jesus? Everyone will go to hell while you sit in heaven. Can you be happy with the idea that most people will be in hell and not heaven? All the jews will go to hell, is that ok? How about all the people on the earth that live a life that is good and fulfilling for them and others but they was raised to believe in a different god just because where they are born. They will go to hell because god needs to punish them for following a different god but yet they live a good life. Do they deserve hell? I don’t think so. that is the very reason I turn my back on the whole bible thing. at the bottom line, for me its stupid.
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Post by Enuffalready on Jun 27, 2005 2:30:22 GMT -5
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jun 27, 2005 23:20:44 GMT -5
You know I knew you would take it that way. So I was thinking about a come back ( Oh what she thinks. No way!) You can divide up the relationship between God and Human in stages. For simplicity I only divided it up in to three.
The first stage with the Jews was the learning stage. That is why they have so many rules.
God moved on and now we are in the grace stage. So we can be forgiven for our sins by confessing and giving our lives to God.
After this stage will be after the rapture. It will be even harder than the 1st stage because humans had the Grace stage but choose to do there own thing.
You can look at it like this. God was laying a foundation with his covenant with the Jewish people. Then when the Covent ended because Jesus came he made a new Covent. After that one will be revelation and I haven't read that enought to tell you what will be going on.
To assume that I just cut my brain off and try and look pass the things that I don't understand in the bible is wrong. You act like that in my entire life I have never questioned my faith. I have had many question and I have had them answered too. Just because I don't believe the way you do doesn't mean that I don't question things. Still I don't know everything so I have to blindly believe that God will move on some situations. With the technology and document we have today I can research the bible to my hearts content and get a further understanding of it.
If you go looking for Contradiction you will find them. Not everything in the Bible in an absolute, and not everything should be done.
I have a question for you Necro. Did you have a relationship with God when you were a Christian. If you didn't then I must tell you you were never a Christian.
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Post by necroshine on Jun 28, 2005 5:40:19 GMT -5
So you are saying that an unchanging god has changed many times? That is a direct contradiction of what god is supposed to be. Your right if I go looking for contradictions I will find them. the problem is when I was a Christian I was not looking for contractions they popped out to me. and when I found one I found many more and I didn’t have to look that hard. What the different part is, I looked at the contradictions where others will ignore them. like I said before why should god punish someone for not believing in him when he placed them on this earth where they would be raised to believe in a different god. So they have to be punished forever for this. I don’t buy it at all.
I can not have blind faith. that is saying that “I don’t understand and I see a contradiction but I’m going to ignore it.” I can not do that. and I will not do that. if you can good for you. You go ahead and ignore logic. Logic has served me better than the bible ever has.
You may be correct that I was never a “true” Christian. That is fine by me. but I was a Christian and I did talk to myself about god and tried to talk to god, but I never heard a voice talking back. But at the same time I have never been a true muslim but I’m just as sure that it is just as full of crap as the bible is.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jun 30, 2005 11:44:13 GMT -5
I didn't say that God has changed I just said the his rules have changed. You can equate it with being in maturing. At different point in you life you have different rules.
The nature behind free will means that God has to allow us to make our own decisions. You can't have true free will if he doesn't allow us do do whatever we want. So If some want to choose another God then that is the choice he/she has made. That doesn't mean there are no consequences for your decisions.
When I find something that I don't understand that seems to be a contradiction I study it and investigate it. I don't just blindly believe. Even though sometimes situation in my life require blind faith (because I am not psychic and God doesn't tell us everything so that we may rely on him).
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Post by vertigo on Jun 30, 2005 18:07:18 GMT -5
This is well said, but let's take it slightly further. Our actions have consequences dictated by God. God decides if we go to heaven or hell, right? It is like God is saying 'you can choose not to go to hell by doing what I say'.
That is like a thief breaking into your home and pointing a gun at your head and saying 'you can choose to live by giving me your money'. Is this thief a loving and giving person? No. A loving person would not threaten your life in the first place.
A loving God would similarly not threaten our eternal lives with hell. Anyhow, it is clear that God doesn't love us because the Bible makes it clear that we don't and can't deserve to get into heaven. Clearly we can and do deserve hell. Either hell is nothing to be worried about or God is truly a villian.
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Post by necroshine on Jul 1, 2005 17:26:12 GMT -5
That makes no sense. God has to grow up? Are you saying that god needed to mature? I don’t follow that logic. The bible says god is perfect and unchanging. Then he must be just that. so any change that god did is a direct contradiction of what god is. You can not have god changing his mind on any issue. It goes against what god is.
That isn’t quite right. If there was free will then that would mean that god does not know everything. How can this be? Either god knows what we are going to do or we have the freewill to choose ourselves. You can not have it both ways. If you think you can, you don’t understand the contradiction between god and freewill.
Not to be calling you names or anything because I have had this same conversation many times before and I bore of the topic quickly. Please understand if god knows what I’m going to do then there is no freewill, if I have freewill then god can not know everything. That is the bottom line of the argument.
Most people do not choose what god they follow. They are raised to believe in the god of the parents belief. Who in turn believe in that god because of their parents. Not much of a choice like that. so why punish a person just because they believe in a different god if the person hasn’t done anything to be punished for except for being raise to believe in a different god. That is no reason to be punished forever in a pit of fire. Does that sound just to you?
Do you believe you deserve hell? what if allah is real, he will send you to hell forever because you believe in Jehovah. Do you deserve hell living the life you live? That would mean that god doesn’t take into account how you live just what you believe. Do you find that just?
So which is it? either you have blind faith or you don’t.
That is true. you can not rely on god. Don’t try.
Vertigo said
I agree whole heartily
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jul 3, 2005 0:11:45 GMT -5
Freewill isn't a contradiction. I don't think that you understand it. God didn't write the script he just knows it. He know our patterns, the way we think, and what we are thinking. So that in depth knowledge about every human would allow him to know what we are going to do.
When I was using that example of growing up I meant humans as individuals and a worldwide race.
Even if someone grows up believing in Jesus, Allah or Buddha that doesn't mean that they actually believe in that God. Necro didn't you grow up as a Christian but you don't believe anymore.
Now I believe that everyone has a chance to accept God. I also believe that I deserve hell but I have been saved by Grace. That is the whole reason Jesus came because he knew that people couldn't be perfect.
I don't care about Allah I am not afraid that god or any other god. I know who the one and true God is. God came to me so I am just trying to live for him.
You guys say you can't rely on God. Well I can tell you you can't rely on any human or even yourself. Everyone lies and contradicts themselves. You know clam that the bible is full of contradiction. I would like something that doesn't contradict itself. I can trust in my God because he has taken care of me.
About the gun to someone head. You know you can still say no. So I guess it still is a choice. Again God is giving you your entire life. He is even giving you right now to accept him.
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