twobirds
Seasoned Citizen
Religion is a con.
Posts: 111
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Post by twobirds on Apr 24, 2006 18:39:32 GMT -5
Can anyone prove to me that god exist, without using anything man made(like the bible or anything else) ?? No really, what can all you believers show me???
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 25, 2006 14:48:01 GMT -5
No, I can't show you God. You have to experience him for yourself. Still I can guide you to him if that is what you want.
First leave the skepticism at the door because it is just going to get in the way. Second find a place where it will just be you. Don't have anything on, like the TV or radio, that will distract you. Third pray and ask him to do something, show you something, what ever you need to believe. You may present you question in anyway you choose. Fourth expect to get an answer and wait. Don't expect to get a certain response just expect to get an response. Stay in that quiet spot for awhile so that you are still open to receive his answer. You can tell him that you are going to wait for a certain amount of time an then do something else but don't stop expecting to get a response.
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twobirds
Seasoned Citizen
Religion is a con.
Posts: 111
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Post by twobirds on Apr 25, 2006 15:57:36 GMT -5
I guess our minds work different. From what I just read, is that you want me to go in somewhere quiet and talk to myself and convince myself that something is going to answer myself?? That's not really proving anything except I can be one with myself. I don't see how that equals god. Still no proof in my eyes.
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Post by solidsquid on Apr 25, 2006 18:51:24 GMT -5
Isn't that basically just setting yourself up with active cognitive biases through the use of priming?
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Post by Hilly on Apr 25, 2006 19:56:31 GMT -5
First leave the skepticism at the door because it is just going to get in the way. See thats a problem, I'm an atheist. I can't just turn my atheism on and off. I've put a lot of thought into it. I've come to the conclusion that the existence of your god (Christian) or any other god is nonsensical. If there really is a god, he/she/it, will need to make its presence known to me. The onus is on it. Life's too short for me to waste time chasing absurdities.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 26, 2006 0:28:31 GMT -5
You asked I told. If you don't want an answer don't ask the question.
When you are doing this you have to ask for something. If you answer yourself back then it isn't God. When God answers back you will know.
Did you even try my suggestion? If you didn't then how do you know if it gives you proof or not?
You have to have some faith if you are going to hear anything from God. A mustard seed can move a mountain. All you need is a grain of sand. What is the big harm in trying it? Gain more than you lose. If you are right I'm just a loon who had a great life believing in a great God. If you are wrong well I know you know.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 26, 2006 0:31:27 GMT -5
the question is what is the absurdity?
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Post by solidsquid on Apr 26, 2006 8:55:10 GMT -5
You have to have some faith if you are going to hear anything from God. Like I said, priming. Here's a working definition of the concept: Source - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PrimingIt has been used to guide behavior a certain way in marketing, governments, businesses, and groups where they need to push the people towards a certain direction. In this example, the researchers theorize how priming can be used to guide people towards pro-social behavior: Source - www.belspo.be/belspo/fedra/proj.asp?l=en&COD=CP/15The same principle is at work if before you enter a fancy restaurant and see a homeless person guzzling a bottle of wine - the homeless person is associated with the schema for alcoholic. With the alcoholic schema activated by priming, you walk into the restaurant. When you sit down, you date orders a bottle of wine - alcoholic? This is a simple example but gets the point across. When you follow the procedure you've outlined, you have successfully primed yourself for an event - you're expecting some sign and you're linked to the god schema. Therefore anything you may associate with that action of praying (the content of it, emotions invoked and so forth) can be interpreted as a "sign". This is then a cognitive bias called a confirmation bias. Did you miss the post I made in another thread about the overuse of allegory? What you assume is that being atheists we've never believed, gone to church or actually honestly prayed. I can tell you that you would be wrong in this assumption. It has nothing to do with there being a deity existing or not, it has to do with how our brains interpret data. Thank you Blaise Pascal, but the wager is not foolproof. Problems with Pascal's wager: plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/#5And an economic analysis of the wager: www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/pascal2.htm
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 27, 2006 12:10:00 GMT -5
You need to have a little faith to get something from God or you will be "priming" yourself not to receive a response from him. That is why I suggested to try and remove your skepticism.
I know that some of you have gone to church. What I don't know is if you have ever prayed the way I have suggested.
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Post by solidsquid on Apr 27, 2006 15:58:34 GMT -5
So exactly how is the model I've provided wrong?
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Post by Hilly on Apr 27, 2006 18:59:11 GMT -5
[quote author=guerrillasaint board=AtheistvTheist thread=1145921972 post=1146029487[/quote] the question is what is the absurdity?[/quote] The concept of a god is the absurdity. In my opinion.
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Post by vertigo on Apr 28, 2006 12:07:50 GMT -5
In the existentialist sense, life is absurd.
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Post by Hilly on Apr 28, 2006 23:50:31 GMT -5
In the existentialist sense, life is absurd. Please elaborate.
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Post by vertigo on Apr 29, 2006 2:12:19 GMT -5
Well, we live in a temporary way, we get old and die. Nothing we do can change that, although some might debate what comes after. Nevertheless, we will die. Positing an afterlife is a recognition of the absurdity of life. Isn't it absurd to live for no ultimate purpose?
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Apr 30, 2006 11:36:48 GMT -5
Yes Guerrillasaint please tell us, how is Squid wrong?
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