snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Feb 11, 2007 19:28:59 GMT -5
"... but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
- Genesis 2:17 (New International Version)
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
- Genesis 3:4 (New International Version)
Death is the punishment for eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil... what did animals do to deserve to die?
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Post by necroshine on Feb 12, 2007 6:28:26 GMT -5
did that apply to animals? i assumed it was just for humans not animals. i know we are animals but still. what do you see in the passages that point to all animals and not just humans?
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Feb 12, 2007 7:39:21 GMT -5
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned...
- Romans 5:12 (New International Version)
Simply that animals do die. The Garden of Eden was suppose to be a tranquil place; yet life is far from it. Animals die like we do, all life does. So, if death entered the world by a man, why were animals punished for this as well?
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Post by necroshine on Feb 13, 2007 6:23:16 GMT -5
oh!!!!!
i see. hmmmmmmmmmm that bastard.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Feb 22, 2007 18:24:57 GMT -5
Death enter the world so everything dies. Humans effect more than we wish to believe. Our choices can be more detrimental than we think. (ignorance isn’t always bliss) Also when they ate the fruit their bodies changed. They begin to degenerate at that moment and needed something to keep their bodies up and running. So animal get to be food. (I don't know how animals feel or it they have souls). Humans are a higher priority than animals are.
The second death that God was talking about was the separation from him and his glory. That day they died spiritually. Sin is death because it is a separation from God and a separation God is death.
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Post by necroshine on Feb 24, 2007 7:54:22 GMT -5
the same ol crap i have heard over and over, almost word for word.
And my typical response is
If god is everywhere then you can not be separated from him not even in hell can you? Then you will say that god can do anything.
I will also say that adam and eve didn’t die for another 900 years. That is living a long time. That is not dying. And you will say that they did die after all. The in get pissed at the whole conversation and in my head I know Christians don’t want to see logic and I don’t know why I start this.
Like snafui said. The whole thing doesn’t have a bit of logic to it. I’m pulling a ponchus pilot and washing my hands of it.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Feb 24, 2007 20:43:56 GMT -5
You keep hearing the same thing because it is the answer to you statement. And if you keep hearing the same thing why do you continue bringing the subject up?
Just because he is everywhere doesn't mean you are with him. You are talking about the physical type of separation where as I am talking about the spiritual separation. Those how accept God as their Lord and Savior are "grafted to him" He calls those who where not Jews and his chosen people wild branches that are grafted to his tree therefore apart of him. If you are not a part of him or connected to him then you are separated from him. (Rom 1:17) Even if he is everywhere doesn't mean that you are a part of him. Doesn't mean he knows you. He has no reason to believe that you are a part of him because you refused to be grafted to Him. So He will harvest those that are His and their reward is eternal life with Him. The weeds among the harvest will be thrown in the fire. He will truly turn his back on them and never help them again. As of right now you are already separated from Him. Still He allows you to have some blessings and some joys. You may be in the same room that God is in but you are not apart of him. You are separate.
Are Adam and Eve alive now? Just because God allowed them to live for 900 years doesn't mean that he didn't keep his word and that their consequence was not fulfilled. Where is the missing logic?
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Feb 27, 2007 18:18:17 GMT -5
So are you saying there was no death prior to Adam and Eve eating from the Tree of Knowledge?
Yes, this is the typical vanity of humanity.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Mar 1, 2007 15:49:44 GMT -5
Yeah that is what I am saying but I could be wrong. (but I don't think so)
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Mar 2, 2007 19:09:28 GMT -5
Ok, then how did life survive? Without death in nature's system there can be no life... ?
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Post by guerrillasaint on Mar 3, 2007 17:49:50 GMT -5
How do you know this?
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Post by guerrillasaint on Mar 3, 2007 17:56:04 GMT -5
Excuse me posted too soon
Life survived because God wanted it to. How He made that happen I don't know. God has the power to do anything so if he wanted a meat eater could have gained sustenance from something else. Who know how the world worked before the fall of man other than God and Adam and Eve. You know the world is continually changing now. What was the truth about how the world was and what lived on it is not the same as today.
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Post by necroshine on Mar 8, 2007 6:53:12 GMT -5
snafui you are talking to a brick wall. guerrillasaint doesn't even want to bow down to logic. a meat eater can survive without eating meat. give me a break.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Mar 10, 2007 18:06:31 GMT -5
excuse me said it wrong, Maybe there were no meat eaters.
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Post by necroshine on Mar 11, 2007 8:16:23 GMT -5
Yea that is it. No meat eaters. Give me a break. AGAIN.
Didn’t god make everything the way we see it today in 6 days, and man was last on the list? than means meat eaters was here.
Wait a minute. Now I’m talking to a brick wall. Forget this. You just don’t want to see logic in anyway. I’m done.
See snafui. Like I said. It’s a brick wall. Even go so far as to want to change what the bible says to uphold what they want to believe.
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