snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Apr 1, 2007 7:15:47 GMT -5
There needs to be some law an order... laws are not written for the upright but for those that willfully violate other's lives.
Not completely, the point was that the more laws you make the more people will violate them. It's not necessarily, nor consistently, a choice. You make silly laws like don't work on Sunday and you create a situation that people must sin. Can you imagine the chaos that would insue if we all the law abiding citizens didn't work on Sunday? Fires? Robberies? Murder? You could get away with a lot if we followed laws like that.
Or it just could be that the rule is outright stupid. Like the ban on nuclear power plants being built because of Three Mile Island. Three Mile Island was proof that our reactors were safe; only 3 millirems escaped which is less than smoking a cigarette (5 millirems). No it hasn't been violated, it's just the only dumb law that comes to mind right now.
Moral laws... such as? Depravity is subjective.
I agree. I find it repugnant that the male has no say when it took half of his genes to make that child. Granted she must carry the child, but that is a result of sex. To deny this is to deny the responsiblity of your actions. My question is, would Social Security be secure if all the abortions in the past 30 years didn't take place? The economy would most likely be stronger. Taxes would have a wider base of collection. And following the Taoist beliefs of all life is precious... what did we not learn from these people?
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Post by necroshine on Apr 2, 2007 9:05:17 GMT -5
In my town like many others in America we can not buy any beer on Sunday but only till 1:00pm. This is a stupid law. Convenient that the ban stops just as people are getting out of church wouldn’t you say? I guess the church goers don’t want us to get a head start on them. There are many more stupid laws on the books just because the christens want them there.
As far as abortion goes I look at it like this. I don’t want to be forced to do something I don’t want to do. So I’m going about to go and force some woman to have a baby just because I want it. The woman has to carry the baby so I just think it should be up to her alone. If someone wants a child there are many children out there with no parents. I don’t that isn’t the best option but I don’t like the idea to force someone to go through child birth if they don’t want to.
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dan
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 116
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Post by dan on Apr 2, 2007 22:42:28 GMT -5
As far as abortion goes I look at it like this. I don’t want to be forced to do something I don’t want to do. So I’m going about to go and force some woman to have a baby just because I want it. It's not about what you want, or anyone else, it's about justice and the value of human life. The baby is already alive when it is in the mother's womb. So really it is an issue of "forcing" a woman to not kill her baby! I should hope that any one of us would be willing to do that. All the more reason that she should protect and nourish the baby - she has been given a responsibility to take care of a helpless, dependent human being. But I could use the same reasoning to argue the same about a baby who is already born: "The woman has to take care of the baby, so I just think it should be up to her if she wants to keep him/her alive"! That's a frightening thought! I understand that this is a complex issue, and that often times it is not even the woman's fault that she is pregnant. But that NEVER justifies destroying human life. For instance, suppose you had a son or daughter who contracted some deadly disease. It might be convenient for you and the rest of society to take the child's life. After all, it wasn't your fault that you are in that situation, right? One can see the foolishness of this argument, and it is no different than the argument in favor of abortion. In both cases, we are talking about a living human being.
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Post by necroshine on Apr 3, 2007 5:59:12 GMT -5
Personal freedom. That is how I look at it. Its my view of the issue and mine alone. The woman has to carry the baby so it should be up to her if she wants to carry the baby. I would not want to be forced into doing that.
We destroy human life every day. I don’t see your point. The war that the usa is in we kill people everyday that are already born. To kill someone that is no more than a couple of cells isn’t anything compared to what we are doing in war. If I recall correctly a lot of people was in favor of going into this war at first. War is all about killing human life.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 3, 2007 18:43:08 GMT -5
Since we are on the subject of human life, does it have a value? Should we care if someone dies or not or is killed? If it is valuable why? If we are all going to die anyway why even care about anyone?
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Post by necroshine on Apr 3, 2007 19:36:03 GMT -5
Good question guerrilla, My view is life isn’t all that valuable. There are over 6 billion people on the earth. And frankly a lot are going to have to die if we want to stop killing the earth. But that is a different subject. Someone dies about every 2 seconds of every minute of everyday. Do you care that they died? No, you could care less correct? How could you care? It would drive you insane if you felt the same way about a “no one” dieing the same way you would if it was your mom or dad. So what value do you put on life? Just depends on how much you know them. The closer they are to you the more you value them. That is why I don’t understand the abortion issue “life is precious” crap. Its just a way to force an opinion on someone. How much value do you put on the life that you know? A lot I hope. How much value do you put on the life that you don’t know. None. Of course unless a lot of people die at once. Example new Orleans or 911. Put this in perspective. About 2,900 died in 911. Today as everyday 150,000 die. Which is worse? For some more number play and to devalue human life even more. I’m just getting the numbers from the net but let just use them for this example. In ww2 about 64 million died. It would only take one year and 2 mounts for the same number to die, give or take a few days. Now like I said I just pulled the numbers from the net not the most scientific thing to do. But this is just an example to show how much people don’t care about life. Bottom line is you can not care about unless they are close to you.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 5, 2007 1:05:15 GMT -5
Why is life valued by death? What about death makes it more valuable? Shouldn't your actions and how you treat others determine the worth of you life? What are you living for? Life is valuable because of the possibilities of what could be done with it. The good that one can give someone else.
My prayer and goal is to be self sacrificing and to put others above me. I think If I could live to help others like Jesus did that would make my life meaningful. To have the same kind of love he had for others.
Life is priceless because of the possibility of good that could be done with it. The Love that can be expressed. The healing and the kindness someone can do. This is what makes life meaningful and priceless. Death can't dull this kind of life because when the people that did know this person come together they can reflect on the why that person lived. All the people they have loved helped and touched and still bless someone from the grave because what they did in life. I went to a second cousin funeral. I didn't know the man but he grew up with my dad. Through the words that the people spoke I could hear that he was a strict man but also a good and loved man. He blessed people while he was alive and changed and helped others. His life was a good and priceless life. It was a sad day but it wasn't a pathetic day. I went to my grandfathers funeral (not grandfather by blood). This man even though I stayed out their house and he was grandpa when I was younger I still didn't know him. He was always cold and never gave me a hug never really talked to me either. I only hugged that man once in my life and that was because I hugged him. He was mean. He was mean to every child that wasn't his or female. When he died I didn't shed a tear I don‘t think any of his grandchildren did. (There is about 19 of us who when to the funeral.) I could have been somewhere else. That was a wasted life. He only did good to people outside of his home. He never loved any of his kids. He had the potential to have a good and meaningful life but his was empty and his last years were lived in fear. He was so sure my grandmother would leave him when he had his stroke. The years of mental abuse he inflicted on her was killing her. After he died I was afraid that she would die, but heck no. Man I didn't even recognize her when I saw her the next time after the funeral. She lost weight and look years younger.
What the great thing about life is while you are still alive it can always be turned around. It doesn't have to stay a torment for you and others around you. Even in the worst of situations you can find hope. You can find joy and peace. You can give hope and peace. Anything is possible if you know where the source of a good life comes from.
This I know to be true. What makes life precious is God and the Love he has. Through that love great things can happen.
I hope you don't live like my grandfather did. I hope that you all find joy, peace and that your life is lived as if it was a precious gift.(heck, I hope I live that way.) I hope you understand how free you could be. So I pray that you have a good day. May God bless your days and Nights.
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Post by necroshine on Apr 5, 2007 6:04:14 GMT -5
Nice story but my point still stands that you don’t care about someone you don’t know dying compared to someone you do know, regardless if you like the person or not. We all touch someone’s life in a positive and negative way. I have an ex coworker if I should ever see out in town I will shoot them a bird and call them an ass regardless of where I’m at. The last time I seen this person he turned his back on me and didn’t say hello although he was standing right next to me. We don’t get along and I don’t care for this person. I touch this guy’s life in a negative way. I have a friend that I gave a lawn mower. He was able to sell it and get himself an xbox 360 out of the deal. I didn’t ask anything for the mower and congratulated him for what he done. We all touch peoples lives in both ways. That is life. I’m sure you do the same. Do you think your grandfather will go to heaven if we was as bad as you remember? I’m sure he believed in god and jesus. You don’t have to be a good person to go to heaven. Even Hitler believed in god. Does your grandmother think that god sent your grandfather to her? What a crappy gift. At least it would seem so from the outside. But I’m sure he loved her. And isn’t that is what its all about, not how he treats other people but how he treated her? And may allah not torment you forever.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 7, 2007 0:29:45 GMT -5
I am glad that my callousness towards other people doesn’t effect the worth of their lives. It is hard to feel a loss for someone you don't know. This doesn't mean that I should not care for those I don't know. It doesn't mean that I should stretch my hand out to strangers and get to know them. It doesn't mean that I should send out whatever resources I have to bless someone . It doesn't mean that I shouldn’t open up to others so that they may see the Glory of my God.
Why would death give life meaning anyway? It may make it more precious but it doesn't give it meaning or worth. Death is just a transition and when we leave this world all we leave are the memories of how we lived. Still if everyone forgets me and I have helped and healed made peace and given mercy while I am here I don't care. I don't need people to know my true name. The question is what can I do for you? My God gives my life worth. I am precious to Him. I don't need to be a celebrity and have a enormous funeral and have people cry over the image of what they though I was. No you can put me in a pine box without a grave marker. If I been a true example of God's glory and helped others then I am good. To be honest I want to be cremated because I don't need people remembering as a gray stiff corps pretending to be asleep. Remember me when I was alive and how I was. Come in white because there is nothing to cry about. Be happy laugh about me and the good times. Have a party going away party. I am going home and I am happy to. I don't have to fear death. I don't see it as a bad thing. I am excited about it. I am not in a rush and I do want to live, but if I die I hope I have lived well.
Necro why are you letting your old co-worker run a bit of our life? You are not punishing this man by holding a grudge. When you treat him harshly you just make him feel right about whatever he did to you. You lock yourself in the non-ending cycle of hate. The only one you are hurting is you. You have chained your mind to this situation that happen and you are allowing it to torment you. Break it and free yourself. To be honest he may not be thinking about you but you are allowing him to take up space in your mind. Forget about what happen and let go. Forgive, Let Go, and Live. I know it isn't easy but it is the only way to be free. You will have a more health mind and body when you do so.
I hope that all of our hearts soften towards our fellow man. I hope we all find the truth.
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Post by necroshine on Apr 9, 2007 6:03:04 GMT -5
I’m not letting my co-worker run any bit of my life. If you look at it like that then the people you like also run your life. I live my own life. I don’t like this guy he has made it clear that he doesn’t care for me so I’m acting accordingly. There are people I like and people I don’t like. You have the same thing in your life. There has to be someone on this earth you don’t like. Someone you would rather not come in contact with. When this should happen are you going to go up and hug them? I doubt it. Just because you don’t’ like someone doesn’t mean they run your life.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 10, 2007 18:51:08 GMT -5
I really don't have anyone I am holding a grudge against right now. I used to have someone like that. Just recently I said I was sorry for how I acted when I was treated poorly. If I had to do it over I would have been different. I would have treated him kindly and with respect. I am not saying it is fun or easy but it is who I want to be. I no longer want to give people what they give to me. I want to give love and respect to everyone. I not saying that it will always happen but I know it can help someone. Doing tit for tat just keeps you going in the same circles. I want to forgive and move on. I want to live with peace. Who know those who strike out my need help. They maybe hurting in some way. I may be able to help if I just show them some love and respect.
That is why I suggested that you would forgive him. It help more than just you. It is a good thing. Break the cycle of animosity.
Live in and with peace.
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Post by necroshine on Apr 11, 2007 5:46:58 GMT -5
yea i heard all that in church. turn the other cheek and all that. i do try to treat people with respect, even the ones i don't like. but every so often there is a person don't don't want to get along so i treat them as they treat me. just so you know he doesn't like me because he knows i'm an atheist, he goes to a church of god. it funny how a man of god treats others. i'm not the only one he treats like this. he is just a piss poor excuse for a human. so being as the good book says to treat others as they treat you i do that towards him.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 12, 2007 22:12:31 GMT -5
No, that man is not living the life that God would want him to live. Not every Christian is like him. If he truly understood what he was called to be he wouldn't try to shut himself off from others. It is unfortunate that he can't see that your life is just as precious as his is. The fact that you live makes you somebody and that you should be respected no matter what you believe. Unfortunately he does not understand that truth. This is sad because it lessens the truth. Still why be like him? You don't like him so why would you do the same thing he does? If you don't like how he treats you or his attitude then choose to be different. You can show him what it means to have respect for others. This may make him see the error in his ways.
Are you talking about an eye for an eye? This is not saying that you should take revenge on them but that the punishment for your actions should be equal to the wrong you did. So that If I kicked someone in the teeth then you shouldn't lose a foot for that action. Also an eye of an eye is in the law and we are no longer under the law. Now that we are under grace God has called us to let it go or even give them more because that is how God treats us. He treats us with mercy so we should treat others with mercy. It does say to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. So If you don't want to be disrespected then don't disrespect and that isn’t just to people you like it is to people you don't like either because you would like everyone to treat you nicely. So you treat everyone nicely.
talk to you later and have a great day.
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Post by necroshine on Apr 13, 2007 5:54:48 GMT -5
its like this for me. i don't like this guy because he is a racist he hates atheists and for the most part don't like anyone that isn't like he is. i found that to apply to most people in the world that are older. not to say everyone is like that but a lot more than people would like to admit. i have no reason to treat him in a nice way. i don't have some bad circle of anger going on, i don't go back and forth with this guy. he doesn't like me so i don't like him. its just one example in my life. i have also got out of my car to help someone to push their car off the road. we all are made up of all emotions. good and bad you can not go through life only being nice all the time. nor can you be mad all the time. you have to have a balance of it all. we all have a blender of emotions. i don't have a problem with showing any side of them. as long as it doens't get out of hand then things are fine. do you think you can go through life and not be angry? do you think it is healthy to go through life and be happy all the time? i don't think so. you have to have a balance of it all. it makes a well rounded person don't you think?
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 16, 2007 20:54:39 GMT -5
Yes, we are a mix of emotions but we have a choice wither we will stay a certain way. We are humans who don’t have to be lead by our emotions but have control over our actions. And our actions can change our emotions. So, I would rather forgive and let it go. Stewing in hate or anger doesn't do anything. I am not saying deny that you are mad or that you hate something. I am saying strive for something better. Let things go and live a more peaceful life. I don't hate people in the KKK even though I know they hate me. I think it is a shame that the feel that way and it would be great if we could be friends. Still if I was going to become friends with someone like that I would have to show them I am not what they think.
So why don't you be an example of how you are with out the labels? If you show him kindness he is less likely to think that you are what you label says about you.
I would like to ask you do you consider that you are a kind person?
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