Filter
Seasoned Citizen
An opposing thumb has made all the difference!!
Posts: 221
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Post by Filter on Nov 8, 2004 13:13:31 GMT -5
that article misquoted exodus 21:22-25 Misquote, misinterpret... either way,  interesting post, but it missed the point of the article and my post. The church's position and/or enforcement on the issue changed relatively recently - due in large part to medical science. I was commenting on vertigo's post on "a good compromise". After this last election in the US, we need a few good compromises if we are to co-exist in this life. (which takes me to another thread, "what is your biggest issue with Christianity" = Selective Application and Evolving Positions. Fundies abhor science but change positions after interpreting sceintific revelations) |
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Post by lindblkr on Jan 7, 2005 4:19:16 GMT -5
My opinion on the whole abortion issue is based on the simple principle that life is not sacred. There is nothing extraordinary nor miraculous about a lifeform arising from preextisting life. If a piece of tissue is going to grow up in a negative environment void of parental role models then it should be depositted into a receptical and thrown away. This dieing piece of rock we live on does not need another natural resource consuming lifeform (especially an American who consumes more resources than any other nationality) to exploit it.
When it comes to the paternal side of abortion, the man (unless he is religious, and therefore should not be reproducing), should have at least 50% say in whether or not the fetus should be expelled after nine months or eliminated prematurely because he will be the financial caretaker of this little bastard for the rest of his life.
Us humans, just like any other animal species, have a primitive notion that our goal in life is to create as much new life as possible, therefore increasing our Darwinian Fitness. The age of our grandfathers is over and we cannot continue to create 4, 3, or even 2 lifeforms in our lifetime if we expect future generations to survive.
-lindblkr
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Post by almostabortedchild on Feb 28, 2005 9:39:20 GMT -5
hey people look i have a question, and i would like your opinions.
Picture this:
you are married and your wife is pregnant with your child, and for whatever reason, devorse....just not wanting it...., wants an abortion, but you on the other hand want the child. Should you as the rightfull father be able to bring the mother/wife to court to stop the abortion. I understand that the male does not have to feel the pain of giving bearth, but still if you want the hild and your wife doesn't should you be able to stop her from having an abortion?
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Post by Hilly on Feb 28, 2005 9:53:50 GMT -5
hey people look i have a question, and i would like your opinions. Picture this: you are married and your wife is pregnant with your child, and for whatever reason, devorse....just not wanting it...., wants an abortion, but you on the other hand want the child. Should you as the rightfull father be able to bring the mother/wife to court to stop the abortion. I understand that the male does not have to feel the pain of giving bearth, but still if you want the hild and your wife doesn't should you be able to stop her from having an abortion? Well its a drag when one party wants the child and the other does not, but the rights/desires of the female must be respected. So in my opinion, in a word, the answer to your question is no. |
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Post by Enuffalready on Feb 28, 2005 9:58:38 GMT -5
hey people look i have a question, and i would like your opinions. Picture this: you are married and your wife is pregnant with your child, and for whatever reason, devorse....just not wanting it...., wants an abortion, but you on the other hand want the child. Should you as the rightfull father be able to bring the mother/wife to court to stop the abortion. I understand that the male does not have to feel the pain of giving bearth, but still if you want the hild and your wife doesn't should you be able to stop her from having an abortion? While I can sympayhize with the father. I have always been vehemently pro-choice when it comes to first trimester abortions. So I still have to say its the woman's body and her choice to make. |
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Post by almostabortedchild on Feb 28, 2005 13:47:23 GMT -5
Pie, your right your viewon this subect is.....different. As you can tell by my name i was supposed to be aborted. i am here a the result of a lastminute change of mind. i am merely 15 and am slightly happy to be alive. the way i see it i ahve more things to do as my life progresses. i am disowned by my parents and live with my ex-girlfriend. i would rather live my life of misery and make it worth living on my own terms than have been aborted. I find that your view on aborting a 13 yearold, if i understand correctly you are pro this action, is rather cruel. why let it live its life and then have no chance to better themselves and/or there lives. at 13 you havn't experienced much of anything, if your a normal teen, I myself have a matured mind, and deal with things that only adults should deal with. you are better off aborting before berth rather than anytime after.
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Post by almostabortedchild on Feb 28, 2005 13:53:22 GMT -5
While I can sympayhize with the father. I have always been vehemently pro-choice when it comes to first trimester abortions. So I still have to say its the woman's body and her choice to make. yes, but you are depriving the father/husband of their child as well, shouldn't he at least have the chance to prove that he can care for the child if born. what if this child is the only one hes able to have, what if his sperm count is too low and he just got......lucky, in a sense, and actually managed to empregnate his wife? to let you know i am doing a school project with a group, my group is pro-the father's choice. we must try and convince the "jury" that we are correct in our beliefs. please continue to reply. |
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Filter
Seasoned Citizen
An opposing thumb has made all the difference!!
Posts: 221
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Post by Filter on Feb 28, 2005 16:09:36 GMT -5
hey people look i have a question, and i would like your opinions. Picture this: you are married and your wife is pregnant with your child, and for whatever reason, devorse....just not wanting it...., wants an abortion, but you on the other hand want the child. Should you as the rightfull father be able to bring the mother/wife to court to stop the abortion. I understand that the male does not have to feel the pain of giving bearth, but still if you want the hild and your wife doesn't should you be able to stop her from having an abortion? No. 1. Humans are not an endangered species nor is an indivdual man physically limited to impregnating only one female. 3. The child is at least 50% of the woman by any measurement. A man has no right to expect another person to produce a child for him that is not 100% his. 4. He should make a surrogate mother contract if he desires a child from the woman. By the way, your "delema" is thought provoking. I struggled with the very same example for a time many years ago. Be careful not to let hypothetical situations take over and hinder the rights of people in real life situations. The suggested case, would be rare. |
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Post by Enuffalready on Feb 28, 2005 17:17:58 GMT -5
yes, but you are depriving the father/husband of their child as well, shouldn't he at least have the chance to prove that he can care for the child if born. what if this child is the only one hes able to have, what if his sperm count is too low and he just got......lucky, in a sense, and actually managed to empregnate his wife? to let you know i am doing a school project with a group, my group is pro-the father's choice. we must try and convince the "jury" that we are correct in our beliefs. please continue to reply. I simply don't think its up to a jury. Not a single person in that room knows whats going inside that woman's mind and body. I'm not saying I wouldn't be upset if it was my wife. Its not an issue of life or death for me. My beliefe is not that life begins at conception but with cognition. So until the baby is developed enough to think and be aware of itself its not a person yet. Cogito Ergo Sum. Not to get personal, I'm truly sorry for the life you've had to this point. But if you had been aborted you'd have never been the wiser. |
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Post by solidsquid on Feb 28, 2005 22:51:27 GMT -5
This issue is tough to look at objectively, there is way too much emotion involved. And when someone does try to look objectively, they are labeled as immoral or a "child killer"...people have been killed over this issue which is paradoxical thinking at it's best. You are pro-life...so let's go kill the doctors that work at the abortion clinics...  I would venture to say that there aren't too many people that are absolutely pro-life or absolutely pro-choice...the majority most likely fall in the middle somewhere. The way the arguments are structured however sets up a false dichotomy. This is a social item that cannot be reduced to a simple pro or con. |
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Post by Enuffalready on Mar 1, 2005 3:27:39 GMT -5
I would venture to say that there aren't too many people that are absolutely pro-life or absolutely pro-choice...the majority most likely fall in the middle somewhere. The way the arguments are structured however sets up a false dichotmomy. This is a social item that cannot be reduced to a simple pro or con. Well said. |
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Post by almostabortedchild on Mar 2, 2005 13:30:58 GMT -5
No. 1. Humans are not an endangered species nor is an indivdual man physically limited to impregnating only one female. 3. The child is at least 50% of the woman by any measurement. A man has no right to expect another person to produce a child for him that is not 100% his. 4. He should make a surrogate mother contract if he desires a child from the woman. By the way, your "delema" is thought provoking. I struggled with the very same example for a time many years ago. Be careful not to let hypothetical situations take over and hinder the rights of people in real life situations. The suggested case, would be rare. as i said as an extention to my first post, what if for some reason the male cant have another child because say.....he has a low sperm count and he out of shear luck, good or bad, impregnated the woman? i am simply doing a project for school the post helps me research opinions |
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Post by almostabortedchild on Mar 2, 2005 13:39:14 GMT -5
I simply don't think its up to a jury. Not a single person in that room knows whats going inside that woman's mind and body. I'm not saying I wouldn't be upset if it was my wife. Its not an issue of life or death for me. My beliefe is not that life begins at conception but with cognition. So until the baby is developed enough to think and be aware of itself its not a person yet. Cogito Ergo Sum. Not to get personal, I'm truly sorry for the life you've had to this point. But if you had been aborted you'd have never been the wiser. as i said i am simply doing a project and i need ppl's opinions to ehlp me argue my case. as far as what i sid about myself goes, so i had a screwed up life who cares i was simply trying to throw a curve ball so to speak. i was trying to make people think. |
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Post by droskey on Mar 2, 2005 14:14:58 GMT -5
almostabortedchild
When a woman bears a child she is going through more than pain. She is accepting the inherent risk involved in becoming a mother. She can die in the process. That being the case, I believe that the father's paternal rights are trumped if the woman does not want to go through with the pregnancy. She cannot be compelled to risk her life so that the man can be a father. Therefore, he may have conceived out of shear luck, but in this instance the man is out of shear luck.
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Filter
Seasoned Citizen
An opposing thumb has made all the difference!!
Posts: 221
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Post by Filter on Mar 2, 2005 18:09:58 GMT -5
as i said as an extention to my first post, what if for some reason the male cant have another child because say.....he has a low sperm count and he out of shear luck, good or bad, impregnated the woman? i am simply doing a project for school the post helps me research opinions If this is a genetic disorder, then eventually his line will die anyhow.... Sorry if this isn't a very good answer. |
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interesting post, but it missed the point of the article and my post. The church's position and/or enforcement on the issue changed relatively recently - due in large part to medical science.
