Code Of Living

[kronus]

The Men Commandments

1. Have no gods
2. Do not worship
3. Maintain reasonable body and mind health
a) Build on self-esteem
4. All days are good
5. Honor your friends
a) Good friends are valuable, make every effort to be one
b) Do not require perfection from your friends
6. Do not hurt others for no reason
a) Protect and provide for your family
7. Be true to your word
8. Do not steal
9. Do not lie
10. Respect women

It's not a point of being right of wrong. It's a matter of what behavior will be beneficial.

My point is that atheists have a great need for a code, even more than a theist because an atheist lives this life, an theist lives for an afterlife.

[Maverick]

Welcome to the boards kronus! It's good to see you posting. I have a couple of questions about the "commandments" you posted above. I'll just give you my response by numbering my answers according to the way you numbered each commandment.

1.) Is this one really a choice? From an atheist's point of view, one cannot somehow magically have a god whether you believe in one or not.

4.) Again, is this one really a choice either? To some extent, we do decide how we will respond to certain things on any given day. But this doesn't change the fact that some days are not good. Who decides what a good day is and what a bad one is?

5.) Let's say your friend tries to get you to break one of your commandments. Should you continue to honor them then?

10.) Shouldn't respect between men and women be mutual? Why should we require respect for one gender and not the other?

kronus

My point is that atheists have a great need for a code, even more than a theist because an atheist lives this life, an theist lives for an afterlife.

Is this meant to imply that atheists don't have a sense of values or morals?

[Yaw]

Maverick

10.) Shouldn't respect between men and women be mutual? Why should we require respect for one gender and not the other?

Well, he did say it was the Men Commandments.

Seriously, this is a good idea, and was attempted by another chatter once on the old board. I'm not sure a consensus on a moral code for atheists is required, but I do think it is a worthwhile endeavour for atheists to try to think through personal ethical codes or guidelines. I'd be interested in seeing those of others, and one of these days should attempt to write down my own. Also interesting would be an analysis of the moral axioms on which these atheistic codes/guidelines are based. As kronus alluded to, without having a prescribed, "received" moral system, atheists have to derive one alone. Of course, atheists do have morals, but laying the formal foundation for them can be more difficult than for those who can claim it was given by a deity.

Finally, welcome kronus!

[pieisgood]

While I do find the concept of an atheist moral code quite interesting and a good idea, I think that the code you have isn't very good. A code would need to be more general. e.g., here are a few sample numbers.

1) Just because somebody disagrees with you does not always mean that they are wrong

2) Live for the moment, but not at other's expense.

etc.

These rules can cover tons of situations, instead of just "friends" or "body" categories. It might be a good gesture to theists to show that yes, we do live for this life, but we don't compromise our morals to do so.

-pieisgood

[kronus]

I agree with you on point 1. I was modeling my code as a rebuttal to the ten commandments. So I am throwing out 1,3 and 4 and changing 5 by eliminating honor your friends. I will change #10 to Respect others person and property.

I did not mean to sound as if atheist do not have a code of living. I feel that we do have one that is more meaningful than the theist's because an atheist applies his code in real situations not to some pie-in-the sky reward in a afterlife.

We are sometime looked on as the evil side, when we are not. Is that not why alot of us are anonymous because if you mention you are an atheist people become mortified? I thought a code would be good but maybe not.

You all have good ideas maybe axioms would be better. I will work on it.

[pieisgood]

1) Yes, I know about the 10 commandments thingy, I think it's a great idea. I was just giving suggestions for what the commandments should be.

2) I'm not so sure that we have a code of living that we go by, just that we do pay attention to ethics and all that. What different Atheists value is up to them.

3) I'm not afraid to "come out of the closet" about atheism. If atheists are afraid, we will never have a place in the world. I just don't give out my name for internet privacy reasons.

4) Thanks this is a very interesting thread.

[AuntieSocial]

We recently had a discussion along these lines on PalTalk. I don't know what ever happened to it ... a few people said they were going to work on a model of the commandments for atheists, more an exercise than an actual suggestion to the atheist community.

As for me, I have one commandment by which I strive to live ... it is a single word that can be applied to every situation ... RESPECT.

[/li][li]Because I respect, I do not steal, rape, pillage, murder.
[/li][li]Because I respect, I will strive to make others happy (as well as myself).
[/li][li]Because I respect (myself), I will strive to be the best person I can be while also striving to help others reach their fullest potential.

Others I have spoken to will reduce their ethical code down to "maximising pleasure and reducing pain".

[Maverick]

Yaw

Well, he did say it was the Men Commandments.

I noticed that. But, at the end of his post, pieisgood said that atheists need a code. When I read this, I thought it was inclusive of both genders and that the title could've just been an interesting typo. Besides, all of the commandments he listed, except ten, can be applied to both men and women.

I did not mean to knock your idea pieisgood. I too think that such attempts are good. Hopefully, these types of attempts will also demonstrate that atheists are just as concerned about their ethics as theists are.

However, I decided to approach your list with some skepticism because I think constructive criticism can be valuable when one is considering a code of living. I think I agree with Yaw, I'm not sure atheists need to (and I doubt we ever will) come to a consensus on a code of living. But it would probably be useful for all people (theists and atheists) to agree that some general ethical principles are needed. They might involve, as AuntieSocial mentioned, respect.

[Griffey]

I too agree that it would be beneficial to have some code of ethics, even if it was just used as sort of a guideline or starting place. The ones you have outlined seem like good boundaries to me.

About number ten, I don't see why it shouldn't be included, with perhaps a slight revision. Traditionally women have been subjugated to men, considered inferior, and overall descriminated against. I think that teaching respect for women to men (AND teaching respect for men to women) is a good and much-needed idea. Maybe it can be re-worded, but the idea behind number 10 is, in my opinion, a good one.

[kronus]

Modified code
1. Respect others person and property.
2. Have empathy for others views.
3. Maintain body and mind health.
4. Good friends are valuable, make every effort to be one.
5. Protect and provide for your family.
6. Be true to your word.
7. Judge people only on their social behavior.
8. Stand against evil.
9. ?

Axioms
1. Just because somebody disagrees with you does not mean that they are wrong.
2. An idea, concept of theory is not false just because its mechanism is not understood.
3. Just because you feel good believing something does not make it true.
4. ?

I was talking to a christian and he said he uses christianity as a guide for his life. I thought, what the hey, Jesus taught to ; give all you have to the poor ( and then when they have everyones stuff I guess they give it back),don't get married, leave your job and follow me, Jesus was anti-family.
The concepts we have here are already better than that.

Define evil
1. Willfully causing mental or physical pain as the purpose of your action.
2. Willfull act with no concern of the results on others.
3. Having no respect for life of property


Question: If a islamic man dies and goes to heaven and gets 70 virgins then if an islamic woman dies does she get 70 eunuchs?

[kronus]

After I made that statement about Islam I felt it was in bad taste. It was not my purpose to make fun of Islam but to point to the bias to men. Islam women are dumped on. But it was not keeping with the topic. I will be more careful in the future.

[nonny]

I only have one thing to say and that is, thiest don't have ethics becouse of God. They have them becouse of stories, and athiests have ethics and morals as well. There are more thiest in jail the atheists, not just becouse there are more thiests.

As a woman i say you shouldn't respect anyone that doesn't respect you. Not saying kill them, but you don't have to like poeple.

[Griffey]

Just because you don't like someone, nonbeliever, doesn't mean you don't (or can't) respect them. Maybe not respect them as a person, but respect their needs and such. But you're right, sometimes it is hard to respect everyone.

[nonny]

If they don't respect you why should you respect them, i mean you can be nice and civil, but you don't have to respect thier opinions and what not.

[kronus]

Thank you Nonbeliever, for the truth, theists don't have ethic because of God. That was a big help.
I made my statement for respect to include person and property to not include someones opinions or ideas.
listening to someones ideas is respectful. But after you have heard you must judge if it is junk or not.
Seems that respect sums it up.