To think instead of..

[solidsquid]

b33 said:

Now, your small bashings, saying im anoyying makes me think your immiture as your role in being a man, then makeing me want to go cry to my mom beacuse you hate me...

First, show me where I have "bashed" you. Secondly, the annoyance is from your refusal to even consider what we have posted in response to you. All you rebut with is the same metaphoric rhetoric over and over and it does nothing to perpetuate a discussion.

Throw your knowlage of false information my way, ill read it.. dont mean im going to fall for the bull shit..

...same to you.

...just like you saying no GOD, haha thats a weak person lusting for power, and you all know you want power, such is the man GOD who can control the type of power we all want, he is the one who has control and can create your life in your image, as well project an image, now your risk is living it though your image, dunno how you live, but im guesing alot of porno, and I dunno, porno for sure, beacuse I too used to be hooked lol, just like every damn man, but any way, let the image project itself.

No hunger for power b33, you have again created your own view of how we are and placed that upon us. I could easily state that belief in god is the inability to deal with a primary locus of control, the need to have that secondary external locus so that one does not necessarily have to deal directly with any stress-inducing situations. I can back that up with documentation of experimental data, what do you have? As you've stated all you have is your subjective "feelings".

the point is this, JESUS is the man who is BRAVE, not BTK, that is oppisite of JESUS, now I cant say oppisoite beacuse, although BTK was a corrupt soul, it is himself which is a small amout of the coruptness which exsists, the oppisite of jesus, is still to come, but it is JESUS who come and fufilled the imiage GOD had set to project to us, the world, it is JESUS who was the work of GOD, and it is JESUS who speaks such truth, that the truth becomes flushed out by doubt and misunderstanding.

This all assumes without inquiry that there was a Yeshua who was a mand-god, there is a such a thing as a soul which can be "corrupted" as well as a deity you refer to. Some pretty big assumptions there b33. Not to mention, you have no validation for what you say either and we would simply have to take your rantings on "faith". And as you know, with us, blind faith is worthless as a method of inquiry.

So says GOD, every sinful temptation can be defeated, and it is these temptations you resist that can get closer to GOD, the BOND of knowing of the most powerfull person in the world, one who knows all and sees all, is like candy to him when he sees a soul with faith, a soul which does not understand fully of his existance, but has the heart to belive and know it, beacuse it is HIM who can see that he belives it, and it is him which can see you doubt, now although we all doubt, it is him which will watch you live as you wish, but it is him which can satistfy you though true bravery, have faith, the one you can not see, is the one that can be felt withen the soul, it is him who rests inside are soul, me you and everyone else.

I tell you what b33, instead of going round and round on this "whole shebang" type of metadiscussion, let's pick one point of contention and go from there. Sound reasonable?

How about we discuss the existence of the purported soul? How do you propose to show that such a thing, in fact, does exist?

[b33]

Ok, now take these words as fact, nothing about what im going to say is about GOD as of this, but this is phycology...
In seconts you can see your reponse to my post, and you have that clear image in your head, this is called imagitive state, in the imigative state is when thousands of thoughts and visions are rushing though, and you can tell when someones brain is in this state beacuse they are writting back and forth, as if writing what they see in there head, since the image is so clear, and we are in are imigintive state, we RUSH AND RAPIDLY post post post, and explain small portions of which we see, but it is in are self that WE KNOW what the image we are thinking, we both seem to be doing this, and mines due to lack of time im taking to write it, beacuse I have such a clear image of it.. just as well as you..

ok you want to focus on his actuall existance... now
Let me tell you why I have a strong belif in the bible, and in jesus, and how I know formyself he is real.
Not long ago, I was a non beliver as well, everything my imiganition would think, would just flash and flood with a clear image of doubt, this was beacuse I was so unsure of everything, it was at this time though, I started to understand what the bible is claiming, and it was this time I read and found out who jesus was, now..
Before I new jesus, I was a strong disbeliver, and I though we had come from apes, beacuse I belived if we had enough time we could of evolved from apes, so my view was pretty much what I had seen on the discovery channel on the apes evolution thing, it all made sense, but then I started reading the bible, and was cerious of who jesus was, beacuse the man who has such high claims, was just of high interest to me,
now the first time I saw jesus, I though ok this guy was a real person but he couldnt of done what he was written to said he has done, just because the whole extent of the miricales he was said he preformed.
I didnt have high doubt though, beacuse the more I looked and watched jesus's life the more the entire picture of life came together, beacuse before I new about JESUS, my view on life was live then die, almost having a pit of just sorrow and unsureness in myself, me being like 16 this was already one of my main ponderings, just life itself.

Some where down the line, I had began to belive, and pray, going to church, aswell, from there came my inside being refreshend, Im telling you, I was a pretty sinful guy only being 16, but not to bad, but the person I am now is 1000X better then I used to be.
Yes you people can think instantly oh your belif in this is what created your false reality, but understand I am 17, and im almost 18 now, my wisdom I belive is pretty knowlageable and im a real fan of phycology, I understand it alot.
You will instantly think oh your stupid you belif in somthing that is total fiction, but this is the point where I passed up, my brain no longer seen it as being fiction, you being a beliver its so easy to shut down his existance, I say this beacuse I have real life experiance in this, I was where you where as a non beliver, but you do not know me as a person, you know me as a person stating claims, instead view me as a person who does look for just as much proff as you guys, beacuse im no different.
Take it from me, it is your misunderstanding and doubt in GOD which over rides his power to come in to your life,
When I SAY GOD CAN COME INTO YOUR LIFE IM NOT BEING CRAZY IM NOT MAKING IT UP, IM SAYING IT BEACUSE ITS SOMTHING I KNOW.

It is GOD who is a hudge mystery, but the thing that I know, which I dont want it to be limited to just this, but GOD is this way for a reason, that reason is beacuse his omnipoet view can see it all, and it is this view he sees, and it is the way it is..

Now as far as life coming together as a bunch of molicules evollving over millions of years, could seem logical, but you know what its not logical at all, beacuse life itself has DESIGN, and it has more design then you can put on paper to create a blue print for your garage, it is his omnipoet view who supplies the matterials for are LIFES, and supplies the space to go though life to understanding areself, belive it or not, but not that many people TRUELY know there self, ask some one whos never though of it, and they just dont know who they really are.

We humans are 2 different species Male and Female, like yin and yang, it is one element which lives off the other element, without both there would be no Yin And Yang, it is the male and female which was designed together to produce life, and to produce more then life, but everything inside of it.

The first step I can take in seeing GOD, this is just me, is the male and female forum, the art in it, how are hands work so rapid, and are eyes see without thinking to see, how are nails grow as apart of us, just like are hair.

Now sometimes I just refresh my brain, beacuse I still wonder why is it that I was put in the body I have right now??
there are 6 billion different people, and I have this one body, this one personality, this one life that is different from everyone elses,
I also wonder sometimes, if we had are human form, which we do now, and we wanted to recreate areself, we couldnt do it, the power of which we run on only is usfull to us and other life forums,
it is life which is already created which can not be re-created, althouh scientsts can hybred genes and take life from a life cell to create a life forum, it is the life forum which exists now that is the building blocks for everything.

Now lets hear your view on what I have viewd, im talking your view on the human body thoughts, mind, everything ive said, say it in your view and dont come into my view.

[solidsquid]

I will respond to you post in detail soon.

[b33]

ok, now sometimes now that ive re-read what ive read lol, just what I was saying up there, it was my mind in my imiagniation state, where my mind can see the entire image, but writeing it is fast and choppy.

[vertigo]

People do things they shouldn't do for two reasons: they don't understand the nature of what they are doing and they think they can't do without it.

If you do something, you must try to understand the true nature of what you are doing. The nature of religion is that it adds an afterlife. To get into the afterlife, do xxxx. If you don't do xxxx you will go to hell/be reincarnated, etc.

It is telling you what you need to do. When you accept religion, you are choosing to accept that you must act according to what the religion prescribes or suffer the penalty.

Now if someone told you to 'do xxxx or else suffer', you wouldn't just go along with it. You would want to evaluate if it is true that you will suffer if you don't do whatever it is you must do. If you just accept what that person says without evaluating it, you are a slave.

That is a very irresponsible thing to do. Now when you hear Christianity's message, you should evaluate whether you will go to hell if you don't comply. When you think about it, Christianity doesn't really explain things too well. What happens to people who never hear Christianity's message? Do they go to heaven? What about babies who die at a young age, do those souls go to hell? How can you accept that these innocent souls go to hell without a chance? What about the Catholics vs Protestants, which one of them goes to heaven?

Then you have the Bible, which is very contradictory, etc. It promotes zealousy, supports slavery, and is generally untenable. How can you evaluate Christianity's message to be authentic?

Thing is, you don't evaluate it. You say "I need it". Without it, there is no morality, etc. The fact is you can live a good life without religion. You can be moral. You don't need it, that's a fact.

Which is more likely, that these feelings you have are God-derived and Christianity is legit, or that these feelings you have have been misidentified by you? The right conclusion, given the evidence, is that God didn't influence your turn-around, you did it on your own.

[solidsquid]

Ok, now take these words as fact, nothing about what im going to say is about GOD as of this, but this is phycology...

Okay, fair enough…and I think you mean "psychology".

In seconts you can see your reponse to my post, and you have that clear image in your head, this is called imagitive state, in the imigative state is when thousands of thoughts and visions are rushing though, and you can tell when someones brain is in this state beacuse they are writting back and forth, as if writing what they see in there head, since the image is so clear, and we are in are imigintive state, we RUSH AND RAPIDLY post post post, and explain small portions of which we see, but it is in are self that WE KNOW what the image we are thinking, we both seem to be doing this, and mines due to lack of time im taking to write it, beacuse I have such a clear image of it.. just as well as you..

I assume there's research upon this "imaginative state" that you are referencing…right? Is this imaginative state an ASC, such as those produced through meditation which increase alpha waves? Just curious as I'm a biopsychology major and have yet to encounter anything describing this "imaginative state". The closest thing would most likely be the term "flow".

Flow is most notable in the sports world as "being in the zone". However, the description of flow as described by Anshel doesn't quite fit want you've described:

Some athletes refer to their experience of performing in an emotional high as "being in the flow". The concept of flow has been interpreted differently in various situations. Athletes are in a state of flow when they are "totally involved in an activity and experience a number of positive (feelings), including freedom from self-consciousness and great enjoyment of the process (51)

Source – Anshel, M. (2003). Sport Psychology (4th ed.). San Francisco: Pearson Publication.

Also, in flow it is often reported that there is a sense of time slowing and being able to react without the anxiety of a temporal factor. As you describe, "rushing" about would not fit flow.

So please, enlighten us, as to this "imaginative state" – please define it and provide some relevant literature so that we may inquire about it ourselves. To me, what you have described is more pathology than anything.

Before I new jesus, I was a strong disbeliver, and I though we had come from apes, beacuse I belived if we had enough time we could of evolved from apes, so my view was pretty much what I had seen on the discovery channel on the apes evolution thing, it all made sense, but then I started reading the bible, and was cerious of who jesus was, beacuse the man who has such high claims, was just of high interest to me,

You do realize that Jesus (if he actually existed) did not write anything right? The gospels were written centuries after his supposed death.

now the first time I saw jesus,

You saw Jesus?

I though ok this guy was a real person but he couldnt of done what he was written to said he has done, just because the whole extent of the miricales he was said he preformed.
I didnt have high doubt though, beacuse the more I looked and watched jesus's life the more the entire picture of life came together, beacuse before I new about JESUS, my view on life was live then die, almost having a pit of just sorrow and unsureness in myself, me being like 16 this was already one of my main ponderings, just life itself.

Those feelings aren't abnormal for being 16.

Some where down the line, I had began to belive, and pray, going to church, aswell, from there came my inside being refreshend, Im telling you, I was a pretty sinful guy only being 16, but not to bad, but the person I am now is 1000X better then I used to be.

So you found a crutch? In more psychological terms, you found a coping mechanism. This does not validate the existence of Yeshua or a deity.

Yes you people can think instantly oh your belif in this is what created your false reality, but understand I am 17, and im almost 18 now, my wisdom I belive is pretty knowlageable and im a real fan of phycology, I understand it alot.

I would encourage to do some more learning.

You will instantly think oh your stupid you belif in somthing that is total fiction, but this is the point where I passed up, my brain no longer seen it as being fiction, you being a beliver its so easy to shut down his existance, I say this beacuse I have real life experiance in this, I was where you where as a non beliver, but you do not know me as a person, you know me as a person stating claims, instead view me as a person who does look for just as much proff as you guys, beacuse im no different.
Take it from me, it is your misunderstanding and doubt in GOD which over rides his power to come in to your life,
When I SAY GOD CAN COME INTO YOUR LIFE IM NOT BEING CRAZY IM NOT MAKING IT UP, IM SAYING IT BEACUSE ITS SOMTHING I KNOW.

Again, here you've offered your anecdotes as proof. These as proof and why they don't hold water have been addressed previously.

It is GOD who is a hudge mystery, but the thing that I know, which I dont want it to be limited to just this, but GOD is this way for a reason, that reason is beacuse his omnipoet view can see it all, and it is this view he sees, and it is the way it is..

And you know this how? From the bible? A source whose validity is in question itself?

Now as far as life coming together as a bunch of molicules evollving over millions of years, could seem logical, but you know what its not logical at all, beacuse life itself has DESIGN, and it has more design then you can put on paper to create a blue print for your garage

Define "design". How do you know what is "designed" and what isn't.

it is his omnipoet view who supplies the matterials for are LIFES, and supplies the space to go though life to understanding areself, belive it or not

Please, do share how you know this as this is not put forth in any ID proposal.

We humans are 2 different species Male and Female, like yin and yang, it is one element which lives off the other element, without both there would be no Yin And Yang, it is the male and female which was designed together to produce life, and to produce more then life, but everything inside of it.

You do realize that sexual reproduction was not the original means of reproducing right? You do realize that sexual reproduction was selected for because of the greater genetic advantages it incurs right?

The first step I can take in seeing GOD, this is just me, is the male and female forum, the art in it, how are hands work so rapid, and are eyes see without thinking to see, how are nails grow as apart of us, just like are hair.

Which are all perfectly explained without the need of any supernatural means as are the evolutionary origins of them as well such as eyes and body symmetry. Also the appeal of body symmetry in humans as a determinant of attractiveness….I thought you studied psychology?

Now sometimes I just refresh my brain, beacuse I still wonder why is it that I was put in the body I have right now??

I assume you're alluding to the existence of a "soul" or "spirit"? The one subject which I offered to focus on and discuss with you.

there are 6 billion different people, and I have this one body, this one personality, this one life that is different from everyone elses,

Genetics and environment.

I also wonder sometimes, if we had are human form, which we do now, and we wanted to recreate areself, we couldnt do it, the power of which we run on only is usfull to us and other life forums,
it is life which is already created which can not be re-created, althouh scientsts can hybred genes and take life from a life cell to create a life forum, it is the life forum which exists now that is the building blocks for everything.

Life has a bit of a lead on us….a 3.8 billion year lead. Studies in abiogenesis and attempts to create simple life has only been seriously pursued within the last few decades and only by a handful of researchers. Give every researcher on Earth unlimited funding and equipment and a long enough timeframe (certainly less than 3.8 billion years) and I assure you, they would be successful within a very short period of time. So many people neglect all the pragmatic confounding variables when pointing out the ignorant claim, "see, researchers haven't done it yet!". No wonder the U.S. is so behind in science literacy.

Now lets hear your view on what I have viewd, im talking your view on the human body thoughts, mind, everything ive said, say it in your view and dont come into my view.

Tell me what part you want to focus on – the brain? You’re a self professed psychology buff, let's talk about the brain. For instance, where is the "soul" located? What is the method of interaction? Bestow upon us knowledge oh great seer.

[Dragon*of*Heaven]

B33 you seriously need to understand. I cant speak for any one else but I can speak for my self. I don't hate you. I do however find it most disturbing that you throw around one of the most powerful words in the English language as if it were a toy. Most of the things you say don't make any sense. It is not because my mind is not open or able to understand you. It is because you don't seem to know how to articulate your belief's. (this conclusion being drawn from your past posts) On top of that you spell worse than I do which is really bad. Case in point Proff is spelled Proof. Every now and then you come off as being a bit arrogant your self. I think you would do well to come off your self imposed moral high horse and really gain some perspective. I personally tend to listen to people a lot more when they are not being condescending when talking to me. In case your wondering where I could be coming up with this I refer to this statement:

This stuff I post is my knowlage and its so logical that you cant comprehend it beacuse you are just on the first level of logic, your mind sees what it can see, your mind does not see what it knows is real yet...
I really fell sorry for a person like you, I see nothing but negitive come from you, no honesty, you really think your better then me, and you really take words which a brother says with no understanding,
I guess once you have god you can see both sides, but once you against him you can only view it one way.

Now I can understand that you are uncomfortable with any facts that we present to you. How ever you don't respond to any of the facts that we present. You say you read them but you don't reply to them. I wonder why this is? Is it that you don't have any factual information to back up your claim or something? You may believe our facts and knowledge to be shoddy or something but let me make this clear: If it is your intent to "help" those on this board believe in what you do then it would be much to the aid of your cause if you presented some facts and stop presenting your argument and your point of view as being a waste of every ones time. (Especially mine)

[The Reservoir Dog]

b33 said:

Now as far as life coming together as a bunch of molicules evollving over millions of years, could seem logical, but you know what its not logical at all, beacuse life itself has DESIGN, and it has more design then you can put on paper to create a blue print for your garage, it is his omnipoet view who supplies the matterials for are LIFES, and supplies the space to go though life to understanding areself, belive it or not, but not that many people TRUELY know there self, ask some one whos never though of it, and they just dont know who they really are.

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/0325_0322_asiaevolution.html

b33 said:

Take it from me, it is your misunderstanding and doubt in GOD which over rides his power to come in to your life,
When I SAY GOD CAN COME INTO YOUR LIFE IM NOT BEING CRAZY IM NOT MAKING IT UP, IM SAYING IT BEACUSE ITS SOMTHING I KNOW.

I believed in god for 16 long years; I argued with people over god's existence and believed and prayed and was positive it was real. It got me nowhere, so for you to sit there and assume that I have never known what it was like to have true belief is possibly the most ignorant thing ever posted on this forum.