dan
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 116
|
Post by dan on Dec 31, 2006 17:31:19 GMT -5
Dan: Isaiah 53:3-7 refers to someone in past tense - how is that a prophecy of something to happen in the future? 3) ...we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4) Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [etc.] I appreciate your research here. In Hebrew Scriptures, writing in the past tense does not automatically disqualify a passage from being predictive of the future. It was a particular style of prophecy. The Isaiah 53 prediction about the Messiah was written from the viewpoint of already taking place, but it was considered a Messianic prophecy by the ancient Jews: "I may remark then, that our Rabbis with one voice accept and affirm the opinion that the prophet is speaking of the King Messiah, and we ourselves shall adhere to the same view" (Rabbi Mosheh El-Sheikh, An Exposition of the Prophets). Obviously the Jews did not think that the Messiah had come already, so the passage was understood to be a prediction. That is a logical leap. One must compare the specific prophecies of Nostradamus with prophecies of the Bible. You can't just assume that the situation is exactly the same for both types of prophecy.
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Jan 1, 2007 18:30:38 GMT -5
I'm very disappointed, you didn't even debate with me you just restated what you already said.
No, dan...I'm saying that is what you are saying. If a parent gives his kids decisions with no boundaries then that is a dumb ass parent and then shouldn't punish the kid for what happened..and the kid would probally already learn his lesson from it. But that isn't even a good example for you to give to debunk my arguement because KIDS AREN"T PERFECT AND NIETHER ARE PARENTS!!!!!! no one is perfect.
If god made adam and eve perfect even morally perfect. Then they are perfect no matter what they do according to how common sense and logic works. If something is perfect, then it is perfect no matter what! Given choices was part of it being made perfect and there fore the choices it makes are perfect. There is no way around that.
Finally: okay so real life example, my brother is a rapist and yes i'm still related to him. But, i'm in no way related to every single rapist on earth! You just made no sense. You are taking something and turning it into something else. Plus what facts? The fact that only direct family member such as mothers, fathers, and only direct offspring are dna capatible? Or the fact that there are so many variations in dna, skin color, eye color, hair type, hair color, nose size, eye brow length, or uhm I don't know EVERYTHING? Only families are capatible in DNA, and if we are all related then howcome we don't all look alike, or have capatible dna? And furthermore Why is incest morally wrong when that is all that happened way back when? If there where only two poeple to start off the world there would be a lot of populating to do, but now a day it's wrong. But according to you it happens, because we are all related right? But it's prooven fact that incest leads to defects such as retardation, and pyhiscal defects why aren't we all defected? We are diverse, and not related. There is to much poof in the world for the adam and eve claim to hold water!
Also, we restarted with noah so wouldn't we have to all be decdents of him? Also how do we have so many cultures and races?
You need to face the real facts dan, not the one written in a children's story book!
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jan 2, 2007 6:50:02 GMT -5
Now nonny don’t bee taking aways dans’ story book. It helps him get through life. See he needs a crutch to get through life with. He needs to know that there is someone that needs its ass kissed even if the person is not around. He don’t care about the contradictions in the bible. He don’t care that logically the bible can not stand up. As long as he get to heaven when he dies that is ok with him. He don’t care how much evil has been done in gods name as long as he goes to heaven. He don’t care how many people gods killed as long as he can sit beside him forever. He don’t care that priests rape children and the church hides the monsters as long as he goes to heaven. He don’t care as long as he gets to hold gods hand in the end. See he is just selfish. Just like the rest of the Christians in the world.
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Jan 2, 2007 18:59:15 GMT -5
Now nonny don’t bee taking aways dans’ story book. It helps him get through life. aww but it's fun necroshine! And i want to be the evil atheist that speaks lies that can't be true..but make sense and can't be debunked.
|
|
|
Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 2, 2007 21:53:25 GMT -5
You know I just looked in Gen. 1:27-31 and the Bible didn't say that he made them perfect. He made them in his own image, yes, but not perfect. He did say it was good. Maybe since he gave them freewill he knew if couldn't be perfect? Also I have a power bible program and searched for the word perfect and Adam and Eve and the word was never referenced with them.
You know we may be all descendant of Noah but Noah's son's had wives that weren't his descendant . It says nothing in the bible about 1st cousins being taboo either. As for race just move to a different area and stay there long enough and you have a different race the same with culture. Also we didn't know the race of Noha's Son's wives. I goes into the genealogy in Gen 10. Also they were living for a long time an making babies.
Well my husband has a theory on the Whole Adam and Eve thing. He said " Eve was made of Adam’s flesh so she had the same genetic make-up of Adam she was just a female. Adam and Eve both have what I call a solid DNA meaning that in their genetic make-up God gave them all possible Genetic variants... i.e. facial features, hair color, tallness, shortness, freckles, no freckles and so forth (though excluding what we recognize as recent mutations) Because Adam and Eve had the solid DNA their children would also have what would be a solid DNA strand though less so . Therefore creating the possibilities and what we see as the current human 'races'. Not being a geneticist this of course if just a theory, but seeing that if you have all the possible variations and 'slam them together' that some pieces would get rearranged or usurped creating dominate, recessive, and dominate recessive genes. Not knowing what Adam and Eve looked like we also don’t know what their children looked like, but under my theory (technically speaking) they could have had a dark skin child and a fare skinned child. Though the differences would have probably been more subtle. And through time and many generations later the Solid DNA would disseminate and or break up in to what we have today. Under my theory working with solid DNA would 1.) Allow for greater leniency upon defects because there is more ‘filler’ DNA to correct faulty and or missing DNA. 2.) The population of the whole earth was not done over night or even over several generations. And even today in many cultures and in our religion/faith there is nothing wrong with marring ones second cousin 3.) As the population progresses and interacts/reacts to its environment mutations that do occur maybe ‘adaptable’ which have changed our DNA. So today we have things like the trait for sickle cell anemia which is beneficial in certain African environments. Who knows what beneficial/bad mutation we have hidden in our DNA which could be the reasoning behind such Genetic defects as retardation or physical defects; when two DNA strands come together that are too similar (mother and son incest) therefore having not only the same defects that compound but have no extra filler to correct said matters. Again I only have a bachelors degree in fine art. I do not clam to be a scientist, researcher or any person of that sort. I am just a simple logical human being. Please do not read this and attribute this to all Christians. For I know one or more would disagree with me. This is my personal theory not law. Thank you”
You know what yeah I need something to help me get through life. I know that I’m not perfect, that I don't have all the answers, that I make mistakes, and that there is a part of me that needs some healing for all the things that have happened to me in my life. I am not ashamed to admit it. I am not ashamed to say that God is my crutch not the Bible. Didn't you know that God didn't come for those that were healthy? He bled and died for all the ones that need healing (which is all of us). I am not self sufficient and I recognize this. I have help when there isn't as single human being around to help. There is a reason they call him the comforter, advisor, the intercessor, Jehovah-Tzideku (our righteousness) , Jehovah-Shalom (peace), and Jehovah-Jireh (provision) .
The Bible is the instruction book on life. It gives real accounts of what can happen if you live your life a certain way. That is why not everyone in the bible is perfect because you need to see the wrong way of doing things and what can happen. It has entire books on wisdom and how to direct yourself. No matter what you want to believe it is as relevant today as the day the individual books were written and the day they were put together. No translation can dilute its meaning or purpose. You may go looking for things that seem wrong in your eyes because you want to back up your belief in the non-existence of a living God and your opinion that the bible is wrong. I found that most of the time when you choose to quote an "evil" passage you took it out of context.
Evil may have been done in God's name that doesn't mean that God commissioned it. Like Nonny said just because his brother is a rapist it doesn't make him one. In Pr 8:13 it says " The fear of the LORD is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate."(RSV) And if Dan is anything like me he know that this isn't about just getting into heaven. In Joh 10:10 Jesus said " The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly." (RSV). The purpose is to grow passed our selfish ways and follow something much greater then ourselves. I can break free of the bonds of this world and the lies that tie me to certain mindset. The more I grow in Chris the more I see the lie is what this world wants all of us to believe. The major things that seem so important become what they truly are just distractions from my true purpose. After all the things you have accomplished in your life Necro can you truly soul search and say that you are fulfilled and could die now and be good. If you truly believe you can make it without out God then just remember that when you talk to him on judgment day (and I hope you life was noting but rainbows and sunshine). What I have realized is God can do without me but I can't do without him. It is a privilege to know him to be able to receive anything from him, and to do something that he wants me to do because the are a million others just as capable as me that he can use. Heck if he wanted to he can make the rocks do his biding. So I going to be happy doing his will.
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Jan 3, 2007 11:11:17 GMT -5
The only thing I'm going to reply to is the DNA part, because the rest of it is just to disspointing.
Here is your bio lesson: DNA can't be perfect, DNA can't be solid. no matter what unless there is a defect invovled, you have 23 paired chromosomes. And there are only so many combination that can be made out of said choromosomes, 4 per each conception to be exact. Therefore you can only have so many combinations till you have dublicates. Hence familes look alike. So when you have two decendents of the same family make a baby, they lessen the pool of traits, and that happens over and over again then you are bound to get defects. That is the way the world works. The concept of DNA in its self, is ment to be flawless because it works quite well. And no matter whose it is it's can't be better or worse till you get the incestual defects. So please go take a science class before you try that arguement again.
And i'll explain why i'm dissappointed: You two, dan and guerrillasaint, don't know how to debate. And the only way you know to convey your believes are to restate them in the exact same way you already said and hope that this itme you'll convince me. Or as guerrillasaint did above, is to defy something I was debating with you and debunk it, to make it look like I'm wrong. We'll I wasn't, you were. But, by quoting me you make it look like I was wrong to everyone else to try and take credit away from me.
I'm tired of not haveing a good debate. I love to debate and get new information. Or try and find out for my self if it can be true with in a fraction of a doubt. I've been doing this on this site since I was 13, I'm almost 18. It's starting to get bland and un-challenging....*pouts*
|
|
CCWriter
Maverick's Chew Toy
Onetime Hurricane Hunter
Posts: 22
|
Post by CCWriter on Jan 3, 2007 17:45:28 GMT -5
"Message I SEEN?" Please. Next you'll be saying LAY down... Makes me wonder why a self-respecting Atheist would even consider debating as ridiculous a proposition as "god." ;D
|
|
|
Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 3, 2007 21:08:18 GMT -5
Maybe we restate what we have said because the answers to our side of the argument haven't changed. We don't need to give you new information.
Don't be so arrogant, I am not trying to discredit you. I agreed with the statement I quoted and it helped me explain my side of the debate. If anyone has read this thread then you don't need to worry about it. Anyway why are you worried about what others think about you? Are you that insecure about your side of the debate? Persistence is the key, persistence and a firm foundation.
I wonder why Atheist want to debate about God myself. I have my own theories but I doubt that any atheist would like it or agree.
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Jan 4, 2007 3:43:11 GMT -5
.....lol. I'm not worried about what others think, If i was I wouldn't be on an atheist message board or debating others. You can't be a poeple please and debate it doesn't work.
And if something is right, then you can always get more information to support it and should never have to repeat the same thing twice.
|
|