Dugald
Broken-in Plebe
Posts: 72
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Post by Dugald on Apr 29, 2004 12:40:55 GMT -5
Good day all!
Stumbled across this board while searching for background information on the Christian fish symbol, with which to continue my ongoing debates with my wife. Looks like some lively conversation, to which I hope to contribute!
I identify myself as more of an Agnostic than an Atheist, but most accurately I suppose that I am both. I don't believe mankind can ever fully understand a force as supreme as God is supposed to be, and therefore any and all religions of the Earth must be less than the truth. By the vast void that seperates us from the divine, God is unknowable.
I also tend to believe there is no underlying force with any purpose in our daily lives, though I would not be so arrogant as to presume I know enough about the universe to claim with certainty such a force definitely does not exist.
I find myself taking the position of Atheist more regularly of late since my wife has become more and more a devout Christian. When we met she was not a church-going person, though I was aware she believed in God, in the same vague way many people I've met do. In the last few years we've been married, she's rediscovered her affinity for the church, and has become quite the born-again. As she swings more in one direction, I seem to swing farther away in opposition, to where I find myself more the Atheist than ever I have been in the past.
Does anyone here have experience with such a relationship, and how do you manage? We have agreed to disagree, but my wife continues to hope (and pray) that I'll realize the error of my ways and join her in her "enlightenment." She has stopped pushing, because she saw how her pushing resulted only in pushing me farther away. But it's become a constant background hum to our marriage.
I'm not sure what to do. I can't stand the thought of divorce, with our three kids caught in the middle. But the constant tension between us is taking a toll I can't imagine a way to repair. I will not begrudge her the right to choose her way, and there's no question she's a happier, better-grounded person since she rediscovered her faith. We debate the issues of religion and belief, but she's not an intellecutal who lives for the debate (which I am), and usually backs away when I press her on the points that make no sense to me. It's not my place to convince her she's wrong, just as I insist it's not her place to convince me that I'm wrong.
So what do we do?
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Post by Yaw on Apr 30, 2004 15:41:45 GMT -5
Welcome, Dugald. Hope you enjoy the board. Feel free to contribute wherever you want.
As for your problem, I'm not sure what to say. Keep communicating, and if it's too much stress there's no shame in seeing a counsellor. I think others will also have some advice.
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Post by AuntieSocial on Apr 30, 2004 18:40:53 GMT -5
Welcome, Dugald. I really wish I could help you with your situation. I have never been in a serious relationship with someone who was a devout Christian. I had dated some church-going guys in my teens (mostly for appearance-sake), but I married an atheist. This may seem harsh, but it is something you should consider. What is the effects of the current strained relations between you and your wife having on your kids? What ages are they? Do they understand what is causing the tension between their parents? Have you told her this? Does she understand that, irregardless of your not having faith, you are happy that she is having the experiences she is having? That you are glad she has found some comfort she apparently needed? Does she understand that you accept her newfound religiocity? Is there anyone else you can have these intellectual debates with? Some other outlet? As you said, it isn't your place to convince her ... maybe it would be better if you not have discussions on this matter for a while. She can have her religious discussions with her fellow church-goers, maybe you should find some like minded people to have your discussions with. Maybe this will ease some of the tension from your marriage. Obviously, you have found this board, and are opening up to us, but have you considered also finding a group of people in your community? I could suggest the Atheist Meetup site, or maybe there is a Unitarian Universalist Congregation. Other options might be joining a Skeptics Organization (this is for the Bay Area Skeptics. I'm not sure if they are near you, (I think you are in California), but they might be able to point you in the right direction) or a Secular Humanist group. |
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Jewel
Broken-in Plebe
I don't want the world, I just want your half.
Posts: 80
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Post by Jewel on May 1, 2004 9:25:56 GMT -5
Good day all!I find myself taking the position of Atheist more regularly of late since my wife has become more and more a devout Christian. When we met she was not a church-going person, though I was aware she believed in God, in the same vague way many people I've met do. In the last few years we've been married, she's rediscovered her affinity for the church, and has become quite the born-again. As she swings more in one direction, I seem to swing farther away in opposition, to where I find myself more the Atheist than ever I have been in the past. The same thing has occurred with my husband & I. When we met, he was adamant that he wasn't a religious person. He studied some eastern religions, but never expressed a closeness to Xtianity. These days, he enjoys going to church, although he still reads eastern philosophy. He invites me to church occasionally, although he knows I'm not interested. We've had some fights about it, but things have died down since then. Thank dog! Remember that ppl change over time. We cannot assume to understand what they feel or why they believe in something. My husband & I have taken it to counseling & we're working on accepting each other despite & because of our beliefs. Sounds like if communication isn't working, then counseling may be in order. Especially for the sake of your children. I hope that helps! Jewel  |
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kronus
Maverick's Chew Toy
A closet atheist. looking for communication with fellow freethinkers.
Posts: 19
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Post by kronus on May 1, 2004 19:07:49 GMT -5
HI Dogald
I am in a similar situation. My wife is a Christian but does not know I am not. This has not bothered me. I understand the religon well enoght to debate. As we discuss the topic logic as won. The bible is so full of silly stuff I find it easy to muck it up. Christians have a hard time giving other the right to think different. The main reason it does not bother me is I do not beleive their is a god and that she it being brain washed. I just want to help.
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Dugald
Broken-in Plebe
Posts: 72
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Post by Dugald on May 2, 2004 14:13:59 GMT -5
Thanks all, for your welcomes, perspectives, and advice.
Responses to a few things:
My kids are 4, 2, and 3 mos, and I'm not ready to be absent from their lives. My parents divorced when I was 6, and my father was barely a presence in my life. I can't bear the thought of being absent from the day-to-day of my kids. Frankly, the tension between my wife and I is not pronounced. We are obviously on different paths at the moment, but so far we have agreed to disagree, and it's not contentious. Our wedding vows included a promise to be each others' "greatest fan and toughest adversary" and "associate in the search for enlightenment." I believe that we're being true to those vows, in openly discussing our differing beliefs.
One of the more delicate topics is how to raise the children: Christian or not. Because the values of Christianity are essentially good, I have agreed that the kids should learn about Christianity, and attend church as much as they want to. I agree to say grace before meals, but I use it as a way to reflect on what I'm thankful for, regardless of whether I'm thanking God, or just my good fortune. I continue to teach the children that the way they're learning in church is not the ONLY way, that there are plenty who believe differently. I hope that they will grow to be free thinkers, and will ultimately choose for themselves.
Yes, absolutely. I support her search for enlightenment, even if I don't agree with her conclusions. I would be a hypocrite to say that the church can't possibly understand MY truth, then claim to know that HER truth cannot be found there. I think each of us must seek our OWN truth, and I support her in that search, no matter where it leads her. As I mentioned, she is much more stable and happy since she has rediscovered her faith. I don't understand how anyone can be happy by turning over their own right to think to another group, but not understanding it makes it no less true.
Oh sure, there are plenty of people I can chat with about religion, faith, etc., but they're not the ones I'm married to. If I don't share my thoughts with my wife, we may as well be divorced. We have always discussed openly whatever is on our minds. I would rather keep the discussion going and share THAT, than to wall each other off and share nothing. I would think that should be a fast-track to divorce, since we'd already be separated.
Jewel, Kronus, sounds like you've both found yourselves in similar straits, and I appreciate your feedback. I certainly do consider counselling an option, and would try that before seriously contemplating divorce. But I'm not sure we're there yet. We do discuss the teachings of the church, and, as you found Kronus, logic usually gives me an advantage over dogma. Unfortunately, because my wife is still learning the dogma, she isn't confident enough to debate me. She usually backs away under the flag of "I don't know everything yet, but I'm sure there's an answer. If you'd only come to church, there are plenty of people there who could answer your questions." Eep, that's a trap I'd rather not fall into!
Hmm ... yet another marathon post. Sorry all, didn't mean to write a book here.
I guess in the end I posted my first message looking for someone who's been down this road and who would tell me that it's possible to coexist. I think we're doing the right things: communicating, supporting each other, and trying to find a way to be at peace with the diverging paths. but unless anyone has a crystal ball handy, I'm still going to have to live out the next few years to see whether or not it's going to work out.
/me sigh
Wish me luck?
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