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Post by advancedatheist on Apr 20, 2004 0:34:59 GMT -5
I missed it what is very very wrong with heaven? Your talking about the fallen angels the devil and what not correct, if you read the bible you will find that he wanted Gods power, so he had a battle and lost, he and his army was cast out of heaven. Is the story in a nutshell. Then why did god create these "angels" with defective judgment? And what's to keep god from botching things up again with its "saints," who could likewise choose to rebel? The Zoroastrian theory, which postulates a good god (Ahura Mazda) and an independent, comparably powerful evil god (Ahriman), at least lets the good deity off the hook for the origins of evil.
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Post by pieisgood on Apr 20, 2004 11:20:14 GMT -5
If you follow the bible strictly, here's something to chew on:
God, being omniscent, knew that the devil was going to rebel against him in heaven. However, he still let it happen. Therefore, the only reason this might have happened is that God wanted the devil to rebel and knew that he would win. So, I don't think that God's overpowering the devil proved squat, as he would have only let him do so if God already knew he could overpower the devil.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the devil basically killed Jesus. However, God created the devil with the full knowledge that the devil would do so, so God killed jesus.
That might be flawed, I don't exactly know the bible very well, but that's what I thought.
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Post by advancedatheist on Apr 20, 2004 12:27:01 GMT -5
This scenario could play out again. God saves a certain percentage of the human race with the foreknowledge that some of them will rebel against it etc. A heavenly rebellion has allegedly already happened, and nowhere does the bible unambiguously state that the conditions leading to such behavior have been rendered permanently inoperative. If you follow the bible strictly, here's something to chew on: God, being omniscent, knew that the devil was going to rebel against him in heaven. However, he still let it happen. Therefore, the only reason this might have happened is that God wanted the devil to rebel and knew that he would win. So, I don't think that God's overpowering the devil proved squat, as he would have only let him do so if God already knew he could overpower the devil. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the devil basically killed Jesus. However, God created the devil with the full knowledge that the devil would do so, so God killed jesus. That might be flawed, I don't exactly know the bible very well, but that's what I thought.
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Post by silveradio on Apr 25, 2004 23:55:47 GMT -5
well, i can speak for everyone out there who was not raised in a family of "believers." i, myself, am a theist. no i am not a product of my environment or any other generalization there is to be made about a theist. i have found this "relationship" with my God to be real through my own experiences. once i researched and searched within myself that the Christian faith was what was right for me, it became clearer everyday, without this conscience effort, that a relationship had been established. its a personal thing that takes over you. it's possible to possess a personal relationship. its a personal process that takes place within yourself. in other words, im saying its a subjective thing that cannot adequetly be described. if you find out that christianity or whatever religion is right for you, you can see what a relationship means to you, because its there. hope this helps
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