livinitup
Broken-in Plebe
In God I trust
Posts: 69
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Post by livinitup on Apr 18, 2004 14:39:28 GMT -5
After reading several different threads now im starting to get the idea that some of yall have mis catagorized yourselves. For those that dont care for instance how the universe was formed, that life sucks... is this perhaps you?
For everyone who does not know what Nihilism is here is a short Definition: Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated
Comments?
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Post by Yaw on Apr 18, 2004 15:04:38 GMT -5
Well, in a way I can see it. One of the founders of this site (since departed) was a Nihilist, so I can see how his views have permeated to some extent.
The reality is that Atheism is in itself a category (that is, a lack of belief in God). It doesn't define what people do believe in. So Nihilism is a subset of Atheism. Similarly, Christianity is a subset of Theism. You'll find there are people here with other viewpoints. (For example, JGalt, who sometimes posts, is an Objectivist.)
At any rate, I am not a Nihilist (though you probably figured that out from my posts).
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Post by nonny on Apr 18, 2004 15:38:32 GMT -5
Livinitup-YOu may be refering to me so I'll jsut say that I think it is a waste of time for poeple to spend their entire life looking for a purpose when they can simply make on them selves or relise they just wasted away and did nothing which would defie the purpose in the first of life in the first place. I hae said and always will say the purpose of life is to live.
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Post by AuntieSocial on Apr 18, 2004 16:01:39 GMT -5
As Yaw stated, being an atheist only means we have no belief in a deity (or deities). Beyond that definition, there are several sub-sets, ideologies, philosophies (call it what you will) that also define a person. In my case, I am a secular humanist. (I value the abilities of mankind and wish to further the equality of all persons.) I am also a nullifidian. (I don't take anything on face value (or by faith).) In many regards, I am a materialist. (I believe that all things that exist are material or physical, there are no supernatural phenomenom).
With respect to values, I think each individual develops their own value system, or ethical code, from their community. While theists will turn to their respective churches for guidance, those of us without a belief will turn to secular laws and basic respect for those around us.
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zalow
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 3
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Post by zalow on Apr 18, 2004 23:13:21 GMT -5
Hi I am Zalow, I am a realist, I believe humankind is responsible for what is. So that human intentions matters. I believe the Bible is an Imperial Document that was designed for humanoid comsumption. I find that Imperialism has infected all carecatures that deny REASON as the way too find truth. Meaning deals with truth. My beliefs are LIFE IS GOD. Science except universal laws that follow definite rules. Life is god fits that same kind of reasoning. I'm aware that God is a code word for hero worship in today's world and that all the horrors of WAR would hardly exist without God to get people too fight for the elite Imperialist symbols. But if you want to change the world from Imperial dogma too the land of paradise, then life is god will raise the consciousness of of the god fearing humanoid's. Without dialoge with all kinds of belief systems Human will annihilatelate itself with its Imperial attitude. I would like your take of my beliefs. mhz4@pacbell.net
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Post by Yaw on Apr 18, 2004 23:32:46 GMT -5
Welcome, zalow.
I'm sorry, but I almost feel your beliefs were presented in a different language. I'm vaguely aware you're using certain words (like Imperial) using very specific definitions to you; definitions I have no way of knowing right now. Could you please try to present your ideas without the technical dialect, or provide definitions to help us understand what you're saying? It would really help us out.
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livinitup
Broken-in Plebe
In God I trust
Posts: 69
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Post by livinitup on Apr 19, 2004 0:49:32 GMT -5
has a twist of all religions in there it seems. Buddism, Anarchy, humanist, and objectivist play roles religiously. However i think Star Wars might take the lead in this one. (j/k man) All i can say is wow... I agree with Yaw i really would like to hear this in plain english cause i have no clue...
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Post by AuntieSocial on Apr 19, 2004 9:25:43 GMT -5
Yes, welcome, zalow. I think I understand some of what you are saying, but I too would like some clarifications ... The first thing you said was "I am a realist." I would like your definition of " realism." There is a school of philosophy called realism, and I would like to know your definition before I comment further on the philosophical position called realism. You mention " Imperial" in several places. Are you refering to the ruling class? governments/church fathers? In a way, I can see how the Bible could be a tool of imperialism (the Christian faith, as well as Islam, has definitely found a way of extending its doctrine beyond its original borders.) Or, did you mean empiricism, which is another school of philosophy which strongly contrasts realismWhen you say "Life is God", do you mean that each of us (individuals) has a god (life)? Or do you mean that through a god we have life? I'm guessing you are leaning more towards the first. Or, are you saying that each of us is the controller of our own destinies and you are throwing that "god" word in there for the hell of it? However i think Star Wars might take the lead in this one. (j/k man) On a more serious note ... do you know any of the doctrinal or philosophical positions put forth by the " Jedis"? Although the " Jedi religion" started appearing on census forms in the UK and Canada as a joke, there is a growing, ummm, following ....
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livinitup
Broken-in Plebe
In God I trust
Posts: 69
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Post by livinitup on Apr 19, 2004 9:35:37 GMT -5
Another interesting question is, do they have light-sabers ? Actually i would believe there could be a religion out there that follows the Jedi way of life...minus lifting the X-wings out of swamps, the Jedi faith cant be much off the Buddist liftstyle. minus the not eating thing the buddists do...
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Post by Yaw on Apr 19, 2004 13:41:46 GMT -5
I think you're referring to asceticism. That's more the domain of Jains, and certain Hindu and Gnostic Christian sects. Buddhism doesn't go for such extremes.
Though if Jedis really did have light sabers... ;D
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livinitup
Broken-in Plebe
In God I trust
Posts: 69
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Post by livinitup on Apr 19, 2004 14:02:03 GMT -5
I think you're referring to asceticism. That's more the domain of Jains, and certain Hindu and Gnostic Christian sects. Buddhism doesn't go for such extremes. Though if Jedis really did have light sabers... ;D Asceticism fits much better good point. Just think how light sabers would change war...*reminisks at the thought of the clip of the starwarskid*(look him up www.ebaumsworld.com/starwarskidv.html ) INCREDIBLE LOL got class be back later
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zalow
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 3
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Post by zalow on Apr 21, 2004 8:27:02 GMT -5
Hi Zalow, What does Realist, Imperialist and life is god mean to me? Realist is what is happening now, why is it happening and what are you going too do about it. Imperilism: Have others do that what you yourself would not do. life is god: I can't see anything more wonderful than life. So if you what to find the truth and if you want too have a dialoge with the rest of humankind then life is god serves that need.
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Kaiouss Khalizad
Maverick's Chew Toy
Anthropic Coincidences: What a coincidence!
Posts: 38
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Post by Kaiouss Khalizad on Apr 22, 2004 13:42:53 GMT -5
Realism sounds like Humanism Light. Too much concentration on the now can prevent progress. Unless of course you're going to say that you think about what you're going to do about it, which is the case with all religions, really. All of us see that now we are in situation x and therefore establish ourselves under a set of beliefs y. So really, I suppose you could say all of us here are realists in that interpretation...
Technically, Imperialism is a term used for politics and good fun foward deployment and all that unless you really are trying to say 'Imperilism' in which case I have no clue what you're talking about.
For me, I love life too much to willingly submitted to some God that I could never know if it existed, so Theism was automatically off the table. As I moved deeper into Philosophy, metaphysics, and eventually quantum mechanics, I became rather fond of New Age. Of course, New Age is to physics as conspiracy theories are to History, so I'm writing my own little book to update metaphysics and clarify some rather new points. I also want to laugh at parapsychologies studies in nonlocality. Anyhow, I'm kind of Pagan, but it's more like a New Age Agnostic Gnostic. I'm always completely objective, so I tend to take the side of science or philosophy, so I suppose in that sense you could say I was atheist in that I reject all ideas of a deity, but not a higher entity. I think there's something that science has missed in it's pursuit of objectivity and right now I'm toying with the idea of essence.
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Post by AuntieSocial on Apr 22, 2004 21:36:11 GMT -5
Realism sounds like Humanism Light. Too much concentration on the now can prevent progress. Unless of course you're going to say that you think about what you're going to do about it, which is the case with all religions, really. All of us see that now we are in situation x and therefore establish ourselves under a set of beliefs y. So really, I suppose you could say all of us here are realists in that interpretation... One of my favourite responses to the whole 'origins' question is "I don't know how we got here, I wasn't there in the beginning. The only thing I can say with certainty is that we are, so what are we going to do about it?" That was my thought also, Kaiouss. Although, I can see how it could also be ascribed to the spread of religion (if you take into consideration the historical importance of religion to the world leaders). I'm glad that zalow clarified the definition of the word used, since it isn't the standard definition associated with imperialism in philosophical circles. I also agree, to an extent, with his interpretation of the major world religions, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that religion is the only tool used to rally the troops. It is, however, one of the more effective banners used. Unfortunately, I believe that war and atrocities would continue without religion, I just think that the acceptability of these actions would diminish. I am looking forward to starting my (formal) trip down the path of metaphysics, epistemology and anthropoly. I was planning on returning to University to study Philosophy and Comparitive Religion (with a focus on sociology and anthropology) in May. Unfortunately, circumstances have forced me to post-pone this endeavour until September (at the earliest). Edit: I think I can spell ...
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Post by Griffey on Apr 22, 2004 21:51:54 GMT -5
Uhmm...to answer your original question I think I might be a quasiNihilist. I don't think that anything can be known for certain. I think everything is an assumption. For example, you can't prove gravity exists. I probably sound like a big idiot, but bear with me. You can hypothesize that gravity is here and always works. Drop something. It'll fall. But you can't prove that it will always fall unless you have a machine set up to do this and record the results from now until the end of time.
This is not to say that assumptions are bad. They work pretty well for this world; the theories of gravity, physics laws, etc. have let us do quite a lot. I just don't think that these things are constant throughout the universe(s?).
But I don't meet the other definitions: I don't think values, or even our inferences about life, are baseless. I mean, maybe we can't know for sure if gravity works, but I'd say it works often enough that we can claim that it does--off of evidence. Likewise, I don't think that nothing can be communicated.
Am I so far off that now I'm not a Nihilist but a super-agnostic? And to address your title, I'm also an atheist, but as you can probably tell I'm an agnostic. I just tend to think that an atheistic universe is more likely than a theistic one (although to be frank deism isn't out of the question with me.)
I definately think that this concept of Nihilism could be qualified as an atheist subset, not as an opposing idea where the two cannot coincide.
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