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Post by Superhappyjen on Oct 9, 2004 11:14:44 GMT -5
Even though science has yet to prove the nonexistence of God (though it's done a good job of contradicting the bible) it's clear to me that the idea of God is something people just made up.
So a) God is made up. b) God has not been proven NOT to exist.
But honestly what are the odds of something TOTALLY MADE UP being true? Not high, I'm guessing.
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Post by EvenThen on Oct 12, 2004 11:21:43 GMT -5
Well... I have a few questions for you.. actually only one but I might think of more.
Why would (most of) the Apostles go to their deaths proclaiming a lie? Why would millions of Christians around the world put up with persecution and intolerance for something that is so "totally made up"? There must be have been something that convinced them that it wasn't simply a crazy idea.
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Post by vertigo on Oct 12, 2004 15:06:30 GMT -5
They proclaimed it because they believed it. The primary question to be answered is whether the truth is important. Should we seek the truth, or have faith, whether it is true or not? Answer me this, EvenThen.
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Post by EvenThen on Oct 12, 2004 16:24:37 GMT -5
There is a whole philosophical arguement to this written by C. S. Lewis, which I think is called Mad, Bad, or Merely Mistaken?. Which again should be an entirely seperate thread.
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Post by vertigo on Oct 12, 2004 16:35:44 GMT -5
Okay. I am waiting for the new threads on abortion, God's reasons for neglecting us and the wisdom of faith.
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Post by EvenThen on Oct 12, 2004 17:57:13 GMT -5
Well, being a junior in high school is not helping me here. Hopefully I will spit them out Thursday morning.
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Snowman
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 12
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Post by Snowman on Nov 18, 2004 23:04:03 GMT -5
Superhappyjen: If I recall correctly, one cannot prove the nonexistence of God any more than one can prove the nonexistence of an invisible elephant in my living room. For every test you could conceive of ("Make it jump." It doesn't want to. "Where is the impression on the floor from its weight?" It is a non-dimensional elephant.) one can explain away why its existence can't be verified. The odds of something "totally made up" ie, 100% false, being true are exactly 0%. This is by strict definition of true and false in a logical sense. I'm not real sure how you got to the a.) God is made up part from your statement above. Just because it is clear to you (and most of the rest of us here) that God is made up, how can you start an a,b,c list like you are putting forth some kind of argument? If that is not what you were doing, forgive me for reading too much into your post. I'm relatively new at this... Even Then: Why would the apostles go to their deaths proclaming a lie? For the same reasons that suicide bombers are blowing themselves up every day in the Middle East. Just because somene is willing to die for an idea does not mean the idea is worth supporting. An argument has to stand on its own merits, and not based on who supports it or what they are willing to do to support it. Additionally, an idea is not supported because you want it to be true or it makes you feel better thinking it is true. An idea is true if its the best explanation you have so far in light of all the information you have. Of course, atheist and theists disagree about the definition of "best explanation" but that's another matter.
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Filter
Seasoned Citizen
An opposing thumb has made all the difference!!
Posts: 221
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Post by Filter on Nov 19, 2004 12:17:22 GMT -5
Even Then: Why would the apostles go to their deaths proclaming a lie? For the same reasons that suicide bombers are blowing themselves up every day in the Middle East. Just because somene is willing to die for an idea does not mean the idea is worth supporting. An argument has to stand on its own merits, and not based on who supports it or what they are willing to do to support it. Additionally, an idea is not supported because you want it to be true or it makes you feel better thinking it is true. An idea is true if its the best explanation you have so far in light of all the information you have. Similar to what I was going to point out. Good example of the suicide bombers. Let me just reiterate the point that people continue to give their lives for ideas that (not to dispute the worthiness) are not based on an underlying truth. Specific theists (Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc) would most certainly agree that if their belief is true then the other's beliefs are false or misguided. In this respect nonbelievers have a huge common ground with specific theists. We share the belief that most superstitions and faith beliefs are false! (We just disagree on the one faith that each particular specific theist holds) I disagree however, that "An idea is true if its the best explanation you have so far in light of all the information you have." The best idea is simply the best idea; no truth implied.
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Snowman
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 12
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Post by Snowman on Nov 19, 2004 14:41:09 GMT -5
Upon further reflection, I see that I didn't really think that through about an idea being considered true if it was the best explanation. For some reason I neglected to see the case where you have a really good explanation for something, but can confirm or refute it, and so you are left with a good idea and a great big MAYBE that its true.
I guess I shouldn't post here when I haven't had enough sleep. I'll try to review my posts more thoroughly. Thanks for the feedback.
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Filter
Seasoned Citizen
An opposing thumb has made all the difference!!
Posts: 221
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Post by Filter on Nov 19, 2004 15:23:57 GMT -5
I guess I shouldn't post here when I haven't had enough sleep. I'll try to review my posts more thoroughly. Thanks for the feedback. Not at all. I just wanted to clarify a word that is a real point of contention in the religious debate. I knew what you meant. In effect, you were referring to the best known working model.
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Post by A Souless Demon on Dec 10, 2004 23:21:36 GMT -5
THE TRUTH:
i know it, i know the truth!
the truth is, aliens on another planet have put humans and other life forms on one planet (earth) and made it into an intergalactic television show. we dont know they are doing this (except some of the rare few who have witnessed it). the truth is, we are a mere reality show come to life, and these other lifeforms are watching us for their sick enjoyment. they like to see us have gang wars, and world wars, and wars period. they like to see all of our inteligence get to the better of us and start to kill one another. you dont see lions attaching eachother because another lion is a different color... were so smart were stupid...
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Post by Hilly on Dec 11, 2004 8:02:34 GMT -5
THE TRUTH: i know it, i know the truth! the truth is, aliens on another planet have put humans and other life forms on one planet (earth) and made it into an intergalactic television show. . Actually, I find this theory more plausible than what the theists have dreamt up
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Post by necroshine on Dec 11, 2004 8:18:35 GMT -5
Why did the Japanese kill themselves for their lord? He was just a man but they thought of him as a god. Why do Muslims kill themselves in suicide bombings for their god? We don’t think that the Koran is true. why does anyone do what they do? many people have went to their deaths proclaiming a lie. Nothing new, do you not see that?
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Post by Superhappyjen on Dec 11, 2004 9:48:38 GMT -5
Just thought I'd jump in here and try to explain my reasoning for thinking that God was just made up (since I didn't explain it very well before).
There is no evidence that God exists. Doesn't it follow then that all theories about God must be based on no evidence and therefore be made up?
On a totally seperate note. I believe that a person willing to die for an abstract idea is fanatical and anything he/she says should be taken as suspect NOT held up as an example of the idea being true.
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ToxicMoon
Seasoned Citizen
Delusional One
Posts: 129
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Post by ToxicMoon on Dec 12, 2004 4:59:04 GMT -5
You know, that statement has a lot of truth in it. Not so sure about the aliens though
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