|
|
Post by nonny on Feb 13, 2005 22:51:22 GMT -5
This may have been said alreayd but...
If we are allowed the choice, according to the bible, of free will and freedom to belive in what god's we will. Why on earth would we be punished for it? It doens't make sense, do you punish a kid for eating a cookie before dinner that you gave to him? No, you don't give it to him in the first place.
And furthermore if God is supposed to be soooo understanding why does he punish the "wicked"? Why would he judge you for freedoms he gave you? He allowed us to do stuff till it "bothered" him and then took it away that does not seem like a compastionate God to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Feb 14, 2005 0:09:25 GMT -5
Interesting point nonny. And the simplistic truth is that it is for control. For instance let us say that there is a child who is told that he is has freedom to choose. The child has not been taught that there are reprecutions for its actions. That way when the child dose something wrong and is punished instead of believeing that it has done something wrong it instead believes that it is wrong. (hence the belive that humanity is inheritly evil) Now this same child believing that it is evil looks on to a supper being that it is told is pure and can make him pure again. It is a cycle. Child acts. Child is punished. Church readems. And then when taught the teaching of the church the child is controled a whole new way. Through its atempts to become holy and abandon its primal urges to follow the "holy path" it keeps getting brought around again and again.
Nope not a very loveing figment.
|
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Feb 14, 2005 0:21:16 GMT -5
It seems almost like a publicity matter doesn't it? Like God is good he doesn't make you believe....but he will punish you if you don;t in small print? Little bit of a "good image" front if you ask me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Enuffalready on Feb 14, 2005 3:27:13 GMT -5
Never given that one much thought nonny. But It seems dead on to me.  |
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Feb 14, 2005 6:57:34 GMT -5
It only looks like a choice. god lied to us. there is no choice.
That would be like me putting my check book down and telling you that you can have it. but if you pick it up I’m going to shoot you in the head. Therefore you have no choice do you.
Plus there is no punishment in hell. if you punish your kid its for a short time and then you let them go play. Hell is forever. that is torture nothing more. God don’t love us. Never has never will.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Feb 14, 2005 21:41:32 GMT -5
It only looks like a choice. god lied to us. there is no choice.
This is not quite true. You have the choice it just may not be the one you want. You see I can pick up the check book or I can not at that point a gun to my head is not in the equation. Now should you say that if I pick up the check book you will shoot me it would probably stop me but I still have the choice. You see, the question is not can I but will I or should I.
At any rate I dont belive in ither of the two and give them no more heed then I give any other mythology (ie chinese, roman, greek, egyption, etc) I just like to study such things and help those who desier it.
|
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Feb 14, 2005 22:50:52 GMT -5
thanks for all the feedbakc you guys got some pretty good points and ideas.
|
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Feb 15, 2005 6:18:03 GMT -5
Dragon at the bottom level it IS a choice. but that is all. if your forced into an action then you have no choice. If it is truly a choice then you should have the freedom to make a choice without the fear of something bad happening to you. Its like a man holding your child at gun point and asking for your money. You have no real choice but to do what he wants if you care about your child. You in effect have no choice. That is my argument. There is no choice when your life or someone you love is on the line. You have to do what ever it is that the person wants you to do. It is true that technically there is a choice but that is all. in reality you have no choice. I will defend this stance against all christens and even god himself if I should have to. (which I doubt)  |
|
|
|
Post by lovelife on Feb 16, 2005 16:44:13 GMT -5
Why would he judge you for freedoms he gave you? He allowed us to do stuff till it "bothered" him and then took it away that does not seem like a compastionate God to me. If you are an atheist, then how can u say that a God gave you freedoms and you just decide not to follow them becuase they supposedly contradict themselves. Also, he is judging you becuase he doesnt want you to pull something like Lucifer, then last, you have that whole entire "he allowed us to do stuff until it bothered him statement" completey wrong. When you make a statement, be sure to know if it is true or not. Im not just gonna post something random sayin that i know for sure that mary is going to hell becuase she killed someone. Have better defenses. Sorry to go back that far into to the thread but i had the urge. Check back on that statement, too. |
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Feb 16, 2005 20:10:40 GMT -5
If you are an atheist, then how can u say that a God gave you freedoms and you just decide not to follow them becuase they supposedly contradict themselves. I am an atheist and I see everything I post in this section as hypothetical. Not as fact but as maybe. Not from who I see it, now I havn't read the whole bible but i have read parts. Sin wasn't created until God thought poeple were out of hand. I never said I had all the facts, only that I had a question that I wanted to know poeples opinions on. |
|
|
|
Post by lovelife on Feb 23, 2005 17:43:10 GMT -5
Not from who I see it, now I havn't read the whole bible but i have read parts. Sin wasn't created until God thought poeple were out of hand. read the first book in the bible and notice that sin was created the moment adam and eve ate the apple |
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Feb 23, 2005 21:01:45 GMT -5
I don’t know how this is going to sound but here goes.
When sin was called sin, was after something happened that god didn’t like. The rules was made up as the story went along. You would think that the rules would be in place before anything happened. So man would know what we are up against.
Ok I guess I’m saying this. If god knows the future and knows what we are going to do before we do it. Then you would think he would put the rules in place to tell us from the beginning what he expects.
That is the way we treat our children. They don’t always do what we want but they know the rules.
The ten commandments wasn’t give to man till latter in the bible. Then the rules that was written in stone was changed when jesus came. Now you have to believe in him to go to heaven.
To me god has been reactive in the rules, not pro-active.
I don’t know if I’m making any sense. But if I am making anyone think let me know. And if you want to call me crazy let me know.
|
|
