GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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Post by GodsAreUs on Jun 13, 2005 17:30:09 GMT -5
Mrs. Guerrillasaint yep, I am mainly talking to Necroshine but who ever wants to take jabs at me is welcome. Sorry about the 'Mr.' You did not specify a gender in your profile and my assumption was incorrect. As for taking jabs, your assumption is incorrect. We welcome folks of all beliefs to share their views here. Just keep in mind where you are, and what the concensus view is for most of the folks who post on this board. Peace |
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jun 14, 2005 14:54:02 GMT -5
It is ok about the Mr thing I wasn't that hurt
Peace back at you
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Post by necroshine on Jun 14, 2005 16:17:39 GMT -5
who do you represent? i would still like to know. in your words, what is god to you. and how does that fit in with the way the church is run.
what is your views on what should be right and wrong?
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jun 16, 2005 11:21:49 GMT -5
it is going to take me awhile to answer that so I comes out coherent. I will answer back. Promise
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jun 18, 2005 2:29:25 GMT -5
God is the Originator. Who I represent is far much more than anything I could say. It is going to take me a lifetime to figure out who he is, and I probably won't event scratch the surface. For a long time he has been my counselor and teacher. He is continually changing my perception. That takes great patients and he has that. The one thing that out weights his patients is his love. He would go to the great lengths to save his people. He is disciplined, he gets annoyed, he loves, he hates (like pride), he serves. He doesn't mind coming in last.
He forgives because he loves and that is what makes him so great.
God is the source of the church. The church isn’t a building it is all those who truly seek God. The church should be an entity that changes the world. The power that we could have through God could be like nothing that this earth has seen. God said that we would do thing even greater than Jesus. Some people have become stagnate and have allowed religion run their life in a vain attempt to be perceived as a “good person.” What they fail to realize is that God can make them something greater than has ever been seen. People love to hang on to things that are safe so people have allowed themselves to be stagnate and God is always moving.
I can only say that God knows what is right and wrong and he lets us know when we are right and wrong. Society tries to do the same thing but it is always corrupted by arrogance. People use right and wrong to put themselves above others. Inevitable what is right and wrong in society changes. That is why, in the grand scheme of things, societies definition of what is right is irrelevant.
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Post by necroshine on Jun 19, 2005 8:04:55 GMT -5
God to me is a tool for the people in power to keep control of the masses who don’t know how to think for themselves, or care to do so. to think of the many people killed in the name of god makes me sick. From the dark ages where we have knights going around killing people in the country side for their god and king. The crusades that swept across Europe that clamed 1,000’s of lives. That was in gods name so people could go to heaven. When the Spaniards seen the Indians in Mexico they killed them all. how is that doing gods service? How many people was killed by christens and the Catholics in Europe so many decades ago? Why would a religion talk down about women when they preach about peace? Women can not speak in the church. Does this sound like this would come from an all loving god or man who wants to keep control over a group of people?
The personal good that comes from this religion does not begin to cover the blood that is in the past of this religion. sure god makes you feel good inside, you think he is bigger than anything else and that is a comfortable feeling. There is someone out there and wants you and loves you and you will see him in the end. That is when everything will be great forever. but that is just a personal feeling. When I look beyond that I see a sea of blood and a mountain of superstition that is built on the tight grasp of the few people in power.
There was a person that was burned at the stake because he said that there was many worlds out in space and god was on every world taking care of the people on the planets around the other stars in space. That is how great god was to him. the church labeled him as a heretic and killed him. I wish I knew the mans name so I could give you a link. If anyone knows help me fill in the blank. I think it was George or Bruce.
Lets not forget that the church arrested Galileo because he said that the sun was in the middle of our solar system. How dare Galileo say that man was not in the middle of the universe? It was just a while ago that the church finally said that he was correct. How backwards can you get?
I can not find any comfort in the church or god. Any god that would want this to happen on his art farm is not someone to worship. Fear yes. But yet I can not fear him. if god is all powerful then why fear him? he can do anything he wants so I can not do anything against him nor can I persuade him in anyway. If god can not understand why I am the way I am then there is no understanding on his part. Therefore I will never worship a god that can not understand the people he created. He does not deserve my love, fear or following.
Lets not forget Allah. He has much blood on his hands also. And it seems to me that Allah is Jehovah with a different name. they both don’t like gay people, woman, or children. They both send their own creation to hell.
To me it is the most absurd thing for two nations to fight about a god. Especially when both are the same in everyway but the name.
I know that on a personal level that god brings good things and comfort to people but that is where the good stops. When you take in on the level of nations god goodness is just not there. HOW CAN YOU KILL IN GODS NAME? don’t you think that is god wanted someone dead that he could do it? if god wanted me to believe in him he would give me what I needed to believe? You say he gave you what you needed to believe in him. as for myself I don’t see any reason to follow something that is not there.
I know that you find comfort in the thought of living forever with the family members that also believe in god. Can you really be happy with the knowledge that this same god that is letting you live in comfort is also torturing many more people in hell? don’t say it is our choice. most just follow a different god. But yet they will find themselves in the same hell with me. but yet they lived for a god just not the right god. How can you know which one is correct? Why is Zuse is looking down and sending everyone on the planet to his hell because no one believe in him anymore?
I like Occam’s razor. It makes like simple. It slices and dices and takes god out of the equation.
Now that we understand each other, what now? I use to be on your side of the fence. But the experience that I have had with my family and people in the community has shaped my view of god and what he represents. It is a funny thing that two people can read the same book and come away with two completely different views on the matter. Does that not point to the way the book was written? If god was behind the writing of the book don’t you think it would be universally understandable? That everyone would have to come to the same conclusion? If god is so great and powerful you would think he could at least write a book that would not have the result of killing millions of people.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jun 25, 2005 0:26:29 GMT -5
What now? I will still debate with you about the goodness of God and pray that some bit of dough will float into your head. You will probably debate with me in hopes that I see it your way or maybe not. It may be a intellectual exercises for you but to me it seems like you need to get something big off your chest. I can't change your mind but I can still talk to you because like to discussing things with you.
A few more things
I don't judge my God on the action of other people
There were many wars not done in God's name.
There were may wars that when under the cover of the name of God
If you look for bad things you will find them.
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Post by necroshine on Jul 1, 2005 17:47:36 GMT -5
I am not trying to change your mind. You have to do that. it is more of , fighting against a god in the correct way. with words not weapons. As far as getting something off my chest, who doesn’t have luggage in their lives? But the things I have seen that people do in gods name make me sick that the same people can look themselves in the mirror and say to themselves that what they are doing is ok.
A few more things
I don't judge my God on the action of other people
I judge god by the teaching of god. God says to do some terrible things in life and have told people to do terrible things in life.
There were many wars not done in God's name.
True but not many at all. so many more have went under the name of god then not.
There were may wars that when under the cover of the name of God
And your point is? That is my point, that people say that they are going to war in gods name just to kill someone. It is the wrong point to go to war. No one should fight and die for a god. It makes no sense. Plus why would god ever tell us to kill one another? Does that sound like something that an all loving god would do? I would think with gods wisdom surly he could come up with a different solution than war.
If you look for bad things you will find them.
But god is pure and just, is he not? how could anyone find something bad with GOD? But yet there it is. I have found it and many more have also. There are many bad things wrong with allah and many other gods that is why I have turned my back to them all. plus if you turn your back to all but one how in the world could you be safe. Which one is correct? And with given the odds in picking the correct god from about 3000 that is a hard task. I think Los Vegas has better odds than that.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jul 2, 2005 23:17:56 GMT -5
I don't believe in my God because I think it is the safest thing to do. I am not worried about being wrong. I have my own proof of God.
I Believe God knows everything. So I trust that he knows what he is doing even if I don't know why.
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Post by necroshine on Jul 5, 2005 19:48:37 GMT -5
don't you think that other people have their own proof of god just the same as you? what makes you correct and others wrong? you believe in jahova as much as any believer of allah. they have the same proof of that god.
then you should believe there is no such thing as freewill. but that is a different topic all together.
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Amy
Broken-in Plebe
Do not follow the blind - in other words, theists
Posts: 87
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Post by Amy on Jul 17, 2005 17:11:46 GMT -5
okay, first off, I didn't read all the posts, because I'm lazy. What can I say? But, anyway, about your point, I do actually think you should totally go to a priest and point out that no god can be evil. So their god is obviously FAKE. I mean, it is a no-brainer, right? Why would any god be the devil reincarnated, right? lol. But seriously, you can point out hundreds of passages in the bible that shows god's cruelty and the extent of it. But a point that a priest could probably say is the bible is not supposed to be taken literally. Then you can say, "Then why does everyone think it is taken literally, and how are you supposed to know your god if all the information you've ever known is not literal, or not real??" Let's see what he/she says then.  |
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Amy
Broken-in Plebe
Do not follow the blind - in other words, theists
Posts: 87
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Post by Amy on Jul 18, 2005 0:20:29 GMT -5
I just wanted to gently remind guerillasaint that we are atheists or agnostics who generally come here and therefore, if we can claim that we're atheists/agnostics, we have valid reasons for it. Personally, I can point out hundreds of reasons why I don't believe in a god, but my main thing about being an atheist is that I can control my own life. I don't need a god... no offense.. I can function on my own in this hell-hole of a world. Think about it: Why would a god create us, and then leave us? I mean, there are twenty-thousand million theories on it, I bet. But, just to point out - I have not seen nor heard from a god. What's the use, then, if no one can hear or see anything from a higher being, etc.?
You know, there was a comic with cave people - two guys were sitting on a rock. One looks over to the other, and says, "Bored?" Of course, the other one replies, "Yep". The first one then asks the second, "What do you want to do?" The second man thinks about it for a second or so, then jumps to his feet, and exclaims, "Let's make future descendants miserable!" The first one raises his eyebrows and says, "Oh yea, and how do we do that?" The second man eagerly exclaims, "Create a god! And claim he created all..." The first man rubs his chin, thinks for a moment, and then also jumps to his feet, "Sounds like a good idea!" So then, the two proceeded to create; basically portraying the character they were creating. So, maybe they played god?
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