A good flash site ... about US Politics

[AuntieSocial]

This link was passed on to me on PalTalk ... thought everyone would like to have a look ...

www.ericblumrich.com/faith.html

I'm posting this here because of the political content ...

[Yaw]

First off, it could really use some decent referencing. A link to the Republican party documents with this platform at the end for example. Without that, I'm not sure I trust all of the source material, as some of it seems a bit too wacky even for the Republican party (for example, abolishing the dollar).

As one other point, I just got back from seeing 11'09"01 (11 directors from 11 countries given 11 minutes each to make a statement about September 11, 2001), and saw many subtle expressions of filmmaking. So I'm not all that enamoured of things that like to hit you over the head. What has become of subtlety?

[AuntieSocial]

Here's a link to the Texas Republican Party Platform of 2000

www.rlctx.org/RLCTX/Texas%20Republican%20Party%20Platform%202000.htm

With respect to currency:

Monetary System – The Party calls for the United States monetary system to be returned to the gold standard. Since the Federal Reserve System is a private corporation, has no reserves, and is not subject to taxation or audit, we call on Congress to abolish this institution and reassume its authority, enumerated by Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution, for the coinage of money.

[Yaw]

But that doesn't mean they want to abolish the dollar. It means they want it backed up by a gold reserve, instead of floating on its own in the money markets. (That is, currency costs would be calculated against a gold standard, instead of against the American dollar.) This isn't exactly an extremist idea, as many economists are saying that the American government was irresponsible in getting rid of the gold standard in the first place, and they are scared of what might happen without gold reserves if the price of the dollar should fall. (I'm not sure about the second part of the platform statement, about removing the Federal Reserve in favour of Congress, but since that wasn't covered in the flash animation it isn't relevant here.)

Let's face it, the way Buzzflash presented this point, it implied that the Republicans intended to recall dollars as a form of currency. That is an absolutely unsupported statement, and a complete misrepresentation of the Republican position.

I never thought I'd be defending Republicans. I hate the Republican position on pretty much everything. But I hate deliberate misleading on the part of the media more. I don't think Buzzflash realizes the extent of their mistake here -- if we can catch them in a lie on even one point they are presenting, how can we trust what they're saying elsewhere in the same presentation? This really drives me up the wall because most of what they presented is factual with respect to what the Republicans are doing, and the electorate should be well-informed about this. If you're going to be informative, especially on issues that contradict the generally-held perception of the American government, you cannot afford to shoot yourself in the foot like that.

[Hilly]

A little over the top I think, what with the references to Hitler and Goebbls.
As for this supposed quote by Bush, "God told me to strike at Al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did." from what I gather the "quote" was obtained through translation and may not necessarily be accurate. (I Hope)
Auntiesocial, that Texas Republican Party Platform is a scary read.

[Griffey]

Yeah, some of what the movie said seemed like it was either exaggerated or taken out of context, after looking at the TRP's platform. (I'm gonna have nightmares after reading that thing...the way they refer to themselves as The Party...can you say 1984?)

But I agree, that movie seemed to be quite misleading in many respects. And that whole Hitler thing didn't seem to be a very good comparison, I mean, even if all those quotes were true, I don't think it was meaningful. So they were both God-driven...so what? Not like other people weren't, including people like Martin Luther King, Jr., and every other president we've ever had.

(On a more technical note the Flash animation was pretty good.)

[nonny]

I'm sorry but that flash is bs, where is thier proof for anything? Half of those programs that want to be "abloished" are the ones the republicians want. That is pure propaganda 100%. I just learned about that, compare bush to hitler is "False comparsion or Analogy" they are propaganda technigues, plain and simple.

[Yaw]

nonbeliever

I'm sorry but that flash is bs, where is thier proof for anything?

Well, I know that a lot of what they listed I've run across elsewhere, with suitable backing (although I saw it late last night, so I don't recall specific examples -- would help if they just published a transcript for easy fact-checking). If you read that platform AuntieSocial posted you'll find considerable support for what they're saying. My contention was that their fact-checking was off in enough instances that it constituted bad reporting, not that it was entirely devoid of factual content.

Hilly

As for this supposed quote by Bush, "God told me to strike at Al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did." from what I gather the "quote" was obtained through translation and may not necessarily be accurate. (I Hope)

I seem to recall from when this quote first made the news that it was unconfirmed. There was something off about the circumstances that threw its veracity in doubt, and I don't remember exactly what that was. (Although since you mention it, it could have been Bush trying to speak in a language he shouldn't have been, and that coming out. Which would imply not so much bad translation as bad linguistic ability.) This probably should have been left out.

nonbeliever

I just learned about that, compare bush to hitler is "False comparsion or Analogy" they are propaganda technigues, plain and simple.

Well, no less an authority than my grandmother has made the comparison, and she's an American Jew from Brooklyn!

Seriously, though, some comparisons on this account are valid, but most people take them way too far. The comparison we were making while protesting the Iraq War was that what Bush was at that time proposing was exactly the crime the Nazis were convicted of at the Nuremburg Trials after WWII -- unprovoked aggression against others. That is, there is international precedent thanks to Hitler's behaviour that the Iraq War was illegal. For anything else, "Hitler" is used for shock value -- there are and have been numerous other leaders that have had similar policies as Bush.

Hilly

Auntiesocial, that Texas Republican Party Platform is a scary read.

This might be the better way to go about discussion here. Instead of debating a flash animation that I think we all have to admit is flawed, why not debate the platform itself? Better yet, are there national Democratic and Republican party platforms published yet that we can sink our teeth into, instead of just the state ones?

[Acriku]

Is the Texan Republican Party platform really going to abolish the dollar, and Board of Education? That sounds a little rediculous, if not untrue.

[Yaw]

We had the discussion of the dollar issue on this thread. Buzzflash very much overstated the Republican position on that one. You can check their opinion on the Board of Education at the link AuntieSocial posted above.

[AuntieSocial]

nonbeliever

I just learned about that, compare bush to hitler is "False comparsion or Analogy" they are propaganda technigues, plain and simple.

I believe Griffey also mentioned something about the comparison being suspect.

I too think that the comparison is unfair, but for different reasons ... I don't think Bush is smart enough to orchestrate religious emotions the way Hitler did.

The quote attributed to Bush was reported to the press by Harretz (Israeli newspaper) and was supposedly stated to the Palestinian Prime Minister, Mahmoud Abbas, during a negotiation session.

Yaw, I agree that some of the platforms mentioned in the Flash program are exagerations of the citations in the actual document, however, the document is definately not full of warm & fuzzies.

From the Republican National Committee Site: The Party Platform. This one appears to be for the 2004 election.

From the Democratic National Committee Site: The Party Platform. This one appears to be for the 2000 elections.

[Yaw]

AuntieSocial

Yaw, I agree that some of the platforms mentioned in the Flash program are exagerations of the citations in the actual document, however, the document is definately not full of warm & fuzzies.

We do agree on this, yes. I disagree profoundly with most of the Republican party platform, for many reasons. I believe that, if implemented fully, it would be extremely destructive to American society, as well as others in the world. My contention was simply that Buzzflash's exaggeration in certain areas hampers their ability to be seen as a legitimate source of information. They could have toned down the rhetoric a bit, and given a presentation that was just as effective emotionally while not running into factual problems.

The national Republican Party platform does appear to be either up-to-date, or for the 2002 midterm elections -- many of the subtitles have Bushian quotes. (Didn't we see this sort of doublespeak with Mike Harris?) I expect both platforms will be up-to-date by the summer, when candidates are confirmed.

I also note the Republican platform has a section on foreign policy in Africa. When I get time, expect a full dissection.