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Post by pieisgood on Dec 22, 2003 12:00:07 GMT -5
Every day at my school, there is a time where everybody says the pledge at the beginning of morning announcments. I don't say it because of the "under god" part. I wanted to get some thought on that- whether you think it's right to not say it, say all BUT the under god, or just say it all anyway. I personally think that saying all is going against what I believe, and saying part doesn't seem right, it seems to me that it's an all or nothing type thing. If I'm agreeing to that much of it, I'm reciting something that I don't agree with, or I'm not reciting what I'm supposed to be.
Also, it makes me mad that they've let it go left alone for so long. If the pledge was "one nation, under Jesus" then nobody would stand for that. Just because we're a minority we don't get as much of a voice as might be fair.
Thoughts? Questions? Comments?
-pieisgood
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Post by Yaw on Dec 22, 2003 12:23:39 GMT -5
A lot of people "protesting", from what I've heard, simply omit the "under God" part. In a way, this makes sense. Those words were actually inserted in the 1950's -- the Americans at the time thought that Communists would reveal themselves by balking at the statement, since the Communist countries are officially atheistic. Naturally, adding the words did nothing in this respect, but fear can make people do pretty silly things. (Today it involves wrapping your home in plastic wrap and duct tape. : The original was actually written by a minister, who intended that the pledge be as inclusive as possible. You could argue that reciting the pledge without "under God" is more respectful than the current version -- not only is it respectful to the country, it is respectful to the author's original intent. And then there are those of us in Canada who don't know our pledge of allegiance, and think the whole idea of reciting it daily is silly.
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Post by Griffey on Dec 22, 2003 14:14:01 GMT -5
I really don't like the pledge, but I say it to be respectful to the flag, because I think it's not a bad idea and whatnot. I always leave out the "under God" part because, 1, I don't believe in God, and 2, it's "pledge graffiti." Plus I like listening to hear who else's voice is omitted at that part.
My personal opinion is that there isn't anything wrong with saying the pledge, not saying the pledge, or editing out a piece you don't agree with. Pieisgod, I'm curious as to why you think it's an "all or nothing" situation. Why do you feel that way?
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Post by pieisgood on Dec 22, 2003 18:12:30 GMT -5
It's almost hard to describe, I'll do my best. It seems like we're told to recite a speech. The idea is to do it word for word, it'll be uniform. If I recite part of the speech, It's almost like playing a game of basketball and walking off the court halfway through. It somehow feels like if you're in, you're in and if you're not, okay. Something inbetween seems to agree with it, which I don't. I believe the speech "The Pledge of Allegiance" to be faulty. That probably wasn't too clear. Feel free to ask more. Yaw... I think the pledge is stupid too; we're giving our allegiance to an inanimate object. I wish I lived in Canada, also then I wouldn't have to live under GWB -pieisgood
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Post by AuntieSocial on Dec 23, 2003 7:20:48 GMT -5
pieisgood Living above (or next to) GWB isn't all that wonderful either ...
I find the whole concept of having to say a pledge silly. Saying words doesn't make you a patriot. To me, it's another form of indoctrination, in the name of nationalism, which can be just as dangerous as blind faith in a God.
Some people believe that Newdow (and others) are anti-American because they object to such references. I think he is more American because he is seeking to uphold one of the founding concepts of the U.S.A. The freedom of and from religion.
The pilgrims came to the Americas to escape religious persecution, the founding fathers of the U.S.A. didn't want the religious persecution that soaked the soil of Europe to occur in the U.S.A.
To blindly follow a God, or your leader, is socially irresponsible, in my humble opinion.
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Post by pieisgood on Dec 23, 2003 12:30:10 GMT -5
you have a point... That's one of my main arguments. America is all about religious freedom for everybody. Even if it goes against the 0.000002 percent of the people, it still defeats the purpose of America. Yes, I find the pledge to be stupid too, but you're "not allowed" to say it just because you don't like it. More dumness. Beleive me, I DO NOT follow GWB. Can't wait for November 2004... if he gets re-elected, I'm going to shoot myself -pieisgood
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Post by Hilly on Dec 23, 2003 14:01:31 GMT -5
And then there are those of us in Canada who don't know our pledge of allegiance, and think the whole idea of reciting it daily is silly. I guess I would be one of those. Does it have something to do with the Queen? When I went to school we had to recite the Lords Prayer. That practice has since been droped. We also sang the National Anthem which includes the line. God keep our land glorious and free...
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Post by AuntieSocial on Dec 23, 2003 16:48:20 GMT -5
Okay, I know it, but I didn't know it by heart ... here is the anuck Pledge (Oath) of Alligence ...
Private Member's Bill C-408 was introduced into the House of Commons on May 7, 2003 to have an additional line added for Members of Parliament (when they are being sworn into office). The additional line would read:
It was also proposed that this pledge to Canada be added to the Immigration Pledge as well.
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Post by Griffey on Jan 6, 2004 20:14:55 GMT -5
[griffey being cynical] Woah, pieisgood, you've got your story all wrong! Dub-ya was never "elected." Dub-ya was put in office by the supreme court. He cannot be "re-elected." He was never elected in the first place. Of course that also means you can't shoot yourself. [/griffey being cynical]
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Post by pieisgood on Jan 11, 2004 19:36:15 GMT -5
[griffy being right] Yes, very true.
let me rephrase that.
...if GWB is put in office one more time, ...
[/griffey being right]
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Post by nonny on Jan 12, 2004 8:41:50 GMT -5
I personally, don't say the pledge but when i do end up saying it, as Griffey knows, I say under whatever, instead if "under God"
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Post by ck on Jan 18, 2004 1:53:09 GMT -5
I really dont like to say the pledge in school so i avoid saying it.
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Jewel
Broken-in Plebe
I don't want the world, I just want your half.
Posts: 80
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Post by Jewel on Mar 16, 2004 10:23:43 GMT -5
I also refuse to say the pledge of allegiance. I think the combination of church & state is over-the-top. Typical American societal pressures though. I can't believe they still say that in schools... Jewel
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Anarchat
Seasoned Citizen
School's design is two-fold: to polish the exceptionally dull and to dull the exceptionally bright.
Posts: 107
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Post by Anarchat on Mar 16, 2004 10:40:10 GMT -5
pieisgood The pilgrims came to the Americas to escape religious persecution, the founding fathers of the U.S.A. didn't want the religious persecution that soaked the soil of Europe to occur in the U.S.A. You must be very careful about what you say. The Founding Fathers, on the whole, were not pilgrims or puritans. The pilgrims and puritans were just as religiously intolerant as those they were trying to escape. All Americans should rejoice that the puritans and pilgrims didn't play a prominent role in writing the Constitution.
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Dinah
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 4
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Post by Dinah on Mar 27, 2004 18:03:27 GMT -5
The way I see it, it is an all or nothing issue. The pledge represents your allegiance/devotion/love for your country and everything specified in the recitation. As long as under god is there, I won't pledge allegiance because it's the ultimate hypocrisy.
People who advise me to be silent during those two words or to substitute something else are idiots. How would a christian feel if we were pledging allegiance to Allah and we told them to put up or shut up? They would throw a hissy fit. Yet every time I sit in silent protest by not reciting the pledge, I'm ostracized (sp?) for it. A teacher approached the subject by asking me, "Is there something wrong with your legs?" [insert derogatory "i-know-you-can-stand-so-say-it-or-else tone here]
Why do I have to be considered a second class citizens for my lack of belief? Like all those protest signs say, this is a democracy not a theocracy. God has no place in government. Period.
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