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Post by solidsquid on Aug 13, 2005 18:27:06 GMT -5
I haven't really had much exposure to objectivism...never got around to reading Rand's stuff. I will one day after all the other books in line in front of them.
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Post by vertigo on Aug 13, 2005 20:49:26 GMT -5
Like anything, you have to take it with a pinch of salt. It's very idealistic, principled, dogmatic even. Objectivist communities/groups are more like social clubs. In case you decide to read Rand in the future, allow me to save you some time. Her fictional works are typically very long-winded and the non-fiction doesn't really encapsulate what she is like. Therefore, here is a short piece called 'The value of money', which is a speech made by a character in her overly long book Atlas Shrugged. As you will see, her style is quite evocative. That was a tidbit. If you want a complete overview of what she was about (philosophically), here is the main speech from Atlas Shrugged. Rand calls it the most concise and accurate rendition of her philosophy. This is really all you should ever need to read of Rand. The rest is fluff. John Galt's Speech: 1 2 3 4 5 6 (To everybody:) Please take note of the 'FAIR USE NOTICE' on those pages linked to. For those unfamiliar with Ayn Rand or philosophy in general, these excerpts are going to be difficult to understand. My purpose here was to concisely reference Rand's philosophical stance, for SolidSquid's benefit. I do recommend reading 'Atlas Shrugged', in fact I would go so far as to say it is a 'must-read' book. In saying 'all the rest is fluff', I mean that the central ideas of her philosophy are encapsulated here (in Galt's speech).
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 13, 2005 21:29:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the links, I'll have to read over them when a have a bit more time.
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Post by vertigo on Aug 13, 2005 21:40:27 GMT -5
No problem. Just to clarify, Atlas Shrugged is a long work of fiction which is valuable to those unfamiliar with philosophy (as in, not at all), egoism or the free market. For you it would surely not be worth the time it would take to read. That was the point I was trying to make.
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 13, 2005 21:56:58 GMT -5
No problem. Just to clarify, Atlas Shrugged is a long work of fiction which is valuable to those unfamiliar with philosophy (as in, not at all), egoism or the free market. For you it would surely not be worth the time it would take to read. That was the point I was trying to make. Ah, no problemo then. I do remember Rand had it out for Kant's philosophy for some reason.
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Post by vertigo on Aug 14, 2005 7:13:04 GMT -5
Just to put things in perspective, her book 'Atlas Shrugged' is the longest book I have ever read. It is three quarters as long as 'War and Peace'. It took me two months to get through it.
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 14, 2005 12:52:09 GMT -5
Over a 1000 pages isn't it? Almost as long as Stephen Gould's magnum opus The Structure of Evolutionary Theory coming in at around 1400 pages. I'll probably pick it up one day and read it nonetheless. I doubt it'll be this semester since I have to gear up to take my GRE and get ready to change over to do grad work...I'll be a tad bit busy to undertake such a read.
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Post by vertigo on Aug 14, 2005 14:09:42 GMT -5
I think you'll enjoy it.
Is that a hint?
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 14, 2005 16:24:02 GMT -5
LOL...actually it was unintentional...his book is just one of the largest I have that is by a single author. My largest book is actually my PDR (Physician's Desk Reference - for medications) which weighs in at about 3400 pages.
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Post by vertigo on Aug 14, 2005 18:50:42 GMT -5
I'm wondering if I should read B.F. Skinner's 'Walden Two'. I want something short and sweet, to show what he thought or was about.
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 14, 2005 18:57:35 GMT -5
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Post by vertigo on Aug 14, 2005 20:56:48 GMT -5
It's difficult to explain. If I want to know what a musician is about, I don't want to know that they made country music, or released 3 albums, or went on a world tour. I want to hear the music, not a cover version, not a remix, the original.
If I want to understand Adolf Hitler, I don't want to know that he was a general, that he was Austrian, that he gassed people, etc, I want to read Mein Kampf.
... which is why I think Walden Two may be the book to read of his.
(remember, knowing that person X posits Y isn't helpful in and of itself)
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 14, 2005 21:55:16 GMT -5
So you wish to "get inside the mind of the man" then. I understand.
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Post by vertigo on Aug 15, 2005 5:36:46 GMT -5
That book will also be interesting to me because Objectivists generally dislike Skinner very much. From what I have seen I gather that Objectivists generally dislike anyone with a view that is contrary to Rand's view.
Rand wrote a short novella called 'Anthem', which was about a man and woman in an intentional community being oppressed, falling in love, rebelling and running away to live a free life. This is contrary to Walden Two, which is Skinner's utopian vision and which sounds very much like the oppressive society Rand described. As they were published at similar times, it could be that this story influenced Rand's writing of Anthem.
So by reading it I learn more than just about B.F. Skinner. But at the same time, I see his view in practice, as he envisioned it.
Correction: I am wrong, Anthem was written 10 years earlier. Nevertheless, I think there are parallels, so it should still be worthwhile (above and beyond that I want to see what he envisioned).
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 15, 2005 13:25:46 GMT -5
That book will also be interesting to me because Objectivists generally dislike Skinner very much. From what I have seen I gather that Objectivists generally dislike anyone with a view that is contrary to Rand's view. The objectivists that I do encounter, I have noticed this as well. The same response you get if you say anything as seemingly derogatory against Mary to a Catholic.
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