magoo
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 6
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Post by magoo on Feb 8, 2004 0:01:08 GMT -5
Love the site but have had trouble joining. I just figured out how to post without registering so here is one of my big questions: How can any intelligent, independent, thinking woman believe in a religion (there are many) that place less value on them as people? Every religion that I am familiar with regards men as lord. Don't they ever question who made up the doctrine (men?) I have many female religious friends and this just drives me crazy to see them put themselves in this position.
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Post by AuntieSocial on Feb 8, 2004 0:41:47 GMT -5
magoo, I hope you figure out how to register so you can continue this conversation. If you have continued problems, please e-mail me at AuntieSocial@rogers.com. I completely agree with you. That is one of my 'hot button' subjects and will most likely be my thesis subject when I get to the Masters and/or Doctorate level ... Religions, especially Judaism, Christianity and Islam work to subjugate women. How any self-respecting woman could possibly follow one of those religions is beyond my comprehension. In my opinion, continued exposure to that sort of dogma can only lead to esteem problems.
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Post by nonny on Feb 8, 2004 1:11:18 GMT -5
I hate that as well. Women should not be on a lower level, we create life. Shouldn't that be proof enough (if there was a god) it would be a women not a man?
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Post by Yaw on Feb 8, 2004 1:27:13 GMT -5
Really, it depends on the religion.
For example, a friend of mine went to a Native American pow-wow and noticed that the women weren't drumming (and weren't supposed to drum). Upon asking why, the answer she got was that the drum is supposed to connect people with the earth, and in Native spirituality that's a connection that women naturally have. So they let the men all drum, because they need it, and the women can go off and dance.
Basically, you'd have to look at a religion in depth before issuing a pronouncement. It's clear that the fundamentalist religions are quite anti-woman. Others can have a more nuanced perspective (such as the proscription against drumming at a pow-wow) where what appears to be anti-woman on the surface may not be when placed in context.
I do agree for the fundamentalist religions. Abuse shouldn't be condoned by the victims.
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Kalena
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 115
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Post by Kalena on Feb 8, 2004 1:45:54 GMT -5
I hate that as well. Women should not be on a lower level, we create life. Shouldn't that be proof enough (if there was a god) it would be a women not a man? Actually, both women and men create life. Women cannot create life on their own.
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Post by AuntieSocial on Feb 8, 2004 2:00:08 GMT -5
Actually, both women and men create life. Women cannot create life on their own. Yea, God must be male ... if he were a she, we wouldn't need men at all (chuckles & ducks as she runs for cover)
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Post by nonny on Feb 8, 2004 20:16:40 GMT -5
Yea, God must be male ... if he were a she, we wouldn't need men at all (chuckles & ducks as she runs for cover) LOL- yeh i guess that is true.
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Kalena
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 115
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Post by Kalena on Feb 8, 2004 20:28:46 GMT -5
Yea, God must be male ... if he were a she, we wouldn't need men at all (chuckles & ducks as she runs for cover) LOL! That had me rolling. ;D
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Post by AtheistMessiah on Feb 8, 2004 20:59:53 GMT -5
It helps women to subjugate themselves when there is a large degree of self-sacrifice implicit in the religion. When a religion promotes complacency and subjugation, women can see themselves as better followers if they keep to their (lower) positions and make sure that other women do the same. They see themselves as noble and god-fearing individuals, and see those that stand up for themselves as breaking from tradition and acting foolish. ("Don't they know their place?")
For Religions, which preach 'the way things are' to so many, the subjugation of women is simply 'the way it is', and to go against this, as anything else in the religious tradition, verges on heretical.
Anyway, that's the way I understand things, and I could be wrong. It's simply what makes the most sense to me right now.
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coolguy
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 26
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Post by coolguy on Mar 25, 2004 19:16:41 GMT -5
I agree with what atheistmessiah said. Most religions have been devised to keep slaves working contently. John Lennon's song "woman is the nigger of the world" is a terrific song that helped further open my eyes to the subjugation of the "fairer sex." I can't remember the words, but the idea I get from that song is that most men are slaves, but each man (ideally) has a slave (woman) of his own. And of course that's the way God wants it, according to the religions - it's God's will that men are enslaved, used, cheated by their rulers, and it's God's will that for each man there is a woman that he can enslave, Use and rule himself. There are still CRAZY laws on the books in the US like you can't beat your wife on the court house steps after dark, and can't use a stick thicker than your thumb to lash your wife. (see stupidlaws.com, especially southern states) The king of his own castle type thing.
The reason women continue to believe these religions, just like the men, is because they are brainwashed using techniques that have been evolving and tweaked for thousands of years. It's really kinda interesting to study and come to understand how that works, in a "damn I hate these fucking religions and what they do to people" type way.
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Post by Superhappyjen on May 2, 2004 7:45:09 GMT -5
No religious person I know believes EVERTHING the bible says. They choose what to believe based on their own personality. When I pointed out to one Christian friend about this very topic, she shrugged and said I was taking things too literally. Remember the bible was written in the olden days by men.
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Post by Hilly on May 2, 2004 9:39:30 GMT -5
Yea, God must be male ... if he were a she, we wouldn't need men at all (chuckles & ducks as she runs for cover) I've noticed that on Tamara's posts she always refers to her god as being a she. Personally, I worship Mother nature.
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Post by william on May 18, 2005 5:27:53 GMT -5
Now will any of the men here admit that they find submisive women more atractive than assertive women. this topic came up on a Christian forum , when someone posted the results of a servay that found most men prefer submisive women.
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Post by solidsquid on May 18, 2005 16:59:58 GMT -5
I don't. I'd rather the woman take a proactive role...or maybe I'm just submissive.
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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Post by GodsAreUs on May 18, 2005 20:24:15 GMT -5
Now will any of the men here admit that they find submisive women more atrative than assertive women. this topic came up on a Christian forum , when someone posted the results of a servay that found most men prefer submisive women. The fact that result was taken on a Christian forum tells one something... My father died when I was 5 and my mother never remarried. My only sibling is female. For that, I've never been able to fathom any measure of sexism. Yet my mother and sister are devout Christians. Go figure.
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