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Post by liverpool on Nov 30, 2004 2:47:11 GMT -5
i started dating a girl and she is a devoult christian. i am an atheist but i lied to here and just said i was agnostic. but anyways, she is a virgin and i am pretty far off from not. she says that will probably continue dating but doesn't know who long it is going to last because of my "condition." I was wondering if there was anything in the bible where god says premaritial sex is ok and that you should follow your life by your heart and not by the words of a preacher?
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Post by vertigo on Nov 30, 2004 9:15:29 GMT -5
It sounds like your problem can be summarised like this: "I want to screw her, but she is a Christian. How can I convince her?"
If this is not fair, I apologise. A word of advice, looking for Bible justification is a dead-end path. You want to wean her off Christianity, don't you? Or are your needs far more immediate?
As it stands, it doesn't sound like this relationship will last too long. I am definitely no expert, but I can only see that the way forward is to show her that you can be a good person without being a Christian. Maybe that way you can get past her preach-radar.
Let me say something about what I call 'preach-radar'. When Christians spread the word they are being good Christians. To be a good Christian is to do what good Christians do. This leads to Christians being on the lookout for opportunities to preach, to do their noble duty. When they sense an opportunity to preach, they will kick into that mode and trying to talk sense to them will be entirely futile. At that time you might as well give up trying.
The task is to get around the preach-radar. You want her not to relish the opportunity to face off your heathenish claptrap but to sincerely think about it herself. Good luck with that.
If you want to screw her because that is what guys do and what a great guy you are if you can convince a devout Christian to have premarital sex with you, let me tell you that that is very petty indeed. Don't be a slave to your insecurities.
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Post by AuntieSocial on Nov 30, 2004 16:35:38 GMT -5
I have an idea ... how about not dating someone that you have to lie to in order to maintain any level of relations with. Also, it is not a good foundation for a relationship to be looking for loopholes.
If she is a devout Christian, you will only cause her undue guilt (their religion sets them up for this) if you convince her to do something that is not within the realms of her theology. If you really want a relationship with her, you can wait until she is ready to make the move herself. If she is insistant on waiting til marriage, and you don't want to marry her, move on.
Bottom line: you need to be honest with yourself and with her. If you are an atheist, why lie? Keeping it a secret is one thing (especially if you are not asked the question outright), but you have told her you are something you are not. You also need to determine (and be honest) what your motives are in this relationship. Do you really want a lasting relationship with her? If religion is an issue now, how will you deal with it in the future. It isn't likely to go away anytime soon. Do you just want a physical relationship with her? In that case, you probably have the wrong partner.
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Post by AuntieSocial on Nov 30, 2004 16:40:57 GMT -5
If you want to screw her because that is what guys do and what a great guy you are if you can convince a devout Christian to have premarital sex with you, let me tell you that that is very petty indeed. Don't be a slave to your insecurities. , you expressed this possibility in a much kinder way that I could ... I can't even come up with words that would adequately descibe what I think of someone (and I'm not saying this is the case here) who would pursue someone for the sole reason of causing them to spiral into a religious-guilt-trap ... I don't know what to call a male who does that, but females are called "Jezebels". I'm not a fan of religion, by any means, but I find those people who would set out to convince someone to do something against their faith, purely for entertainment, to be dispicable. |
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Post by droskey on Dec 1, 2004 12:14:22 GMT -5
Hi Liverpool,
I agree with Auntie on this. You shouldn't have to lie to maintain a relationship with someone. That's a big red flag. Also, you need to think about how things are going to affect this woman. It sounds like you two are coming from different places. It's better not to let things go too far and run the risk of someone getting really hurt. Intimacy (physical and emotional) should come with both people on equal footing. Each person should know where the other person stands and what the relationship means to them. If this equal footing is not acieved (i.e. if one person is looking for a soul mate and the other is looking for a one night stand) then someone is going to get hurt unnecessarily.
Good luck.
Cheers.
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Post by vertigo on Dec 1, 2004 13:23:17 GMT -5
Well I didn't even think of this possibility, that someone would do that just for entertainment. In fact, I too would be at a loss for words in the face of that.
I only meant that, in a similar way to how Christians look for opportunities to preach, insecure guys look for opportunities to have sex. Man is largely motivated by guilt and society certainly promotes it.
Many believe to be a 'real man' you need to have sex. I only meant that being motivated by that, getting her to succumb as a conquest, not as entertainment but to prove how manly you are, is petty indeed, and most definitely grossly dishonest.
As I said, that people would do it merely for enjoyment I hadn't thought about. Of course I would be far more harsh to someone who would do this.
Maybe the distinction I make is one you don't make, that to see it as a conquest is to do it for enjoyment. Well, seeing girls as conquests is so prevalent one can't really attack it too vehemently without fearing that people would ignore you. In fact, I did worry somewhat about what replies my post above would elicit.
I needn't have worried it seems. That is reassuring.
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Post by AuntieSocial on Dec 1, 2004 16:15:29 GMT -5
Ahhhh, so you were coming more from the "Me MAN *grunt*, primitive being with primal urges ... you WOMAN, my prey for a night" ... I get it ...
Well, I don't have much nice to say about that mindset either, although I am slightly more lenient ... to me, the idea that man has dominion over all living creatures (including woman) is an antiquated notion that needs to be educated out of our youth ... *sarcastic aside* "thanks, Judeo-Christian monotheism ..."
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Post by Maverick on Dec 1, 2004 17:27:35 GMT -5
liverpool, I would agree with the others who have commented here. This relationship is unlikely to last very long. I would not suggest that you have sex with this girl and I think trying to convince her to is not appropriate. If you have sex with her, the possibility that you both will regret it later is great. Besides, how are you able to be satisfied with a girl that sees your "agnosticism" as a condition? Her view of your watered-down atheism is condescending.
Be smart. Don't pick partners that you will lie to and don't pressure this girl into having sex with you.
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