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Post by solidsquid on Aug 9, 2005 17:56:01 GMT -5
lol, you guys are impossible, I dont care what els you guys say or contridict or wat ever you want to belive, Ahh, the psychological reactance rears its ugly head. Negative Ghostrider, we do not bear the burden of proof as ours is the null hypothesis. The item in question is the existence of a deity therefore this cannot be the default. The default is no deity at all, the existence must be proven by those who assert the existence. See above to see why this statement is fallacious. Is your belief based in reasoning or just the fact that you need a psychological safety blanket an emotional buffer to operate within the world? The latter seems to be the motive behind your belief rather than the former. How does it suck? Because you say so? Exactly how did he accomplish that? Maybe you missed the detailed "been there done that" ad nauseum part of the previous conversations. Also, the behavior you've described has nothing to do with the existence of a deity rather than the psychological mediation of anxiety and stress through cognitive restructuring and a secondary external locus of control. No gods, no magic, no supernatural.
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Aug 9, 2005 20:17:52 GMT -5
First of all sure Albert Einstein came up with many a strong theory and was of great aid, However this is also the guy that if I'm not mistaken married his sister. And thus is one of the last people I would ever go too for spiritual advice.
I would have to say you are wrong here. I personally don't like the feeling I get when I don't know something. Especially when I feel I should. I Always feel better after having learned something if not only for the satisfaction that it brings in and of its self. I feel better mostly though because I have attained knowledge that I may later need and I know it.
Not right, and not good because if we take this approach we learn nothing from each other.
Ps. please I urge you to use the spell check or to at least look over your grammar. I know Mine is not the best but I try. I stress this because it is hard to take you seriously when you are constantly misspelling words, using commas incorrectly, and even using are instead of our. Have pride in what you say.
For one we all know male plus female equals you and me. I mean I learned that in like the first grade or something. Secondly how is asking questions in any way, shape, or form selfish?
Ok now we get to the heart of the matter. I agree with solid squid, how ever either you are not reading what he has taken all this time to type or you just don't under stand what he writes. So ill break it down a little simpler. Man has been saying that there are Gods ever since the first child came to his father and asked why the sky was blue. It is because when people do not understand something the first gut reaction is that it must be beyond human understanding and there for God. (pride any one)
That fact is one of the proofs that we speak of. We know that through thousands of years of conditioning the race of man has convinced himself that there is a God simply on the theory that something has to be in control of life. We as the smart beings that we are have come to the understanding that something dose not have to be simply because we cant explain why it cant not be. An example is that just because I cannot explain how the Universe was formed that dose not mean that a God put it there.
This is our reasoning for proof. We have many reasons why a God existing dose not make sense. We have done our best to attempt to show you proof. You have shown no proof to back your claim. If you are in court would any one believe you did not commit a crime simply because you did not say that you did? I think it is you who need to find some proof to back up your claim.
ps if none of that made sense then this: Don't believe in something simply because you wish it to be true or fear it is.
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b33
Broken-in Plebe
Posts: 57
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Post by b33 on Aug 10, 2005 2:27:16 GMT -5
Ok how about this....
Instead of fighting and arguing..
You tell me WHY you do not belive in a GOD, and maybe I can write back to counter your thoughts, I have a strong felling your going to be saying alot of, theres not proff, theres no proff, but let me hear exactly why you dont belive in GOD.
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Post by droskey on Aug 10, 2005 12:07:08 GMT -5
Well, I don't believe in god mainly because when I did, the things that I believed didn't match up with reality. I was forced to compartmentalize my life. I had to treat my faith one way and everything else in a different way. At first I didn't realize that I was doing this. When I finally became honest with myself I tried to integrate the two sides of my life. It was when I did that that I realized that I treated my faith with kid gloves. In my day to day life I had a healthy degree of skepticism. If someone told me something that sounded flaky, I didn't just accept what they said without asking questions and having those questions answered to my liking. However, in things of faith I just accepted what people told me. I just believed without having a good reason to do so. The more I thought about this, the more uncomfortable I became with it. As I subjected my faith to the same level of skepticism that I practiced in my everyday life, my faith didn't hold up very well. I started to wonder what was so great about faith. Why did so many religions treat faith as being equivalent to goodness. I concluded that this was a bad way of thinking. So I eventually got to a point where I felt comfortable leaving faith behind. I didn't value it anymore because I didn't believe that it was a trait that was admirable or valuable. That is the point at which I stopped believing in god.
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Post by pieisgood on Aug 10, 2005 13:45:05 GMT -5
Ok how about this.... Instead of fighting and arguing.. You tell me WHY you do not belive in a GOD, and maybe I can write back to counter your thoughts, I have a strong felling your going to be saying alot of, theres not proff, theres no proff, but let me hear exactly why you dont belive in GOD. 2 points I'd like to make. 1) As you said, the burden of proof is on the believers. Get a basic philosophy textbook or just google "Occam's Razor". 2) However, as it turns out, there are reasons I don't believe in God. - I don't believe in an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent God because it then stands to reason that: a) God knows that suffering is going on (omnipresent), b) God has the power to stop that suffering (omnipotent), and c) God wants to stop that suffering (omnibenevolent). and yet, In My Humble Opinion, there's plenty of suffering out there. - I don't believe in his omnipotence. Is is possible for God to make a burrito so hot that he isn't able to eat it? The common response to this is "God can't do things that are impossible." Oh, you mean like, a virgin birth? Creating Bread and Water out of nothing? I agree, those things are quite impossible. ...I'm sure there's more out there. Now, please make an attempt at directly refuting and giving your own arguments. Thanks.
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 10, 2005 15:27:01 GMT -5
Ok how about this.... Instead of fighting and arguing.. You tell me WHY you do not belive in a GOD, and maybe I can write back to counter your thoughts, I have a strong felling your going to be saying alot of, theres not proff, theres no proff, but let me hear exactly why you dont belive in GOD. The support for this hypothesis does not warrant it's acceptance...plain and simple. Therefore, I reject it in favor of the null hypothesis. Maybe you didn't read my post above...you should.
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 10, 2005 15:33:58 GMT -5
First of all sure Albert Einstein came up with many a strong theory and was of great aid, However this is also the guy that if I'm not mistaken married his sister. And thus is one of the last people I would ever go too for spiritual advice. He was first married to a Serbian mathemetician and then later married his cousin. He also was a Zionist and was offered the second presidency of Israel but turned it down.
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Post by Hilly on Aug 10, 2005 19:53:59 GMT -5
Ok how about this.... Instead of fighting and arguing.. You tell me WHY you do not belive in a GOD, and maybe I can write back to counter your thoughts, I have a strong felling your going to be saying alot of, theres not proff, theres no proff, but let me hear exactly why you dont belive in GOD. To me it just does'nt add up, it makes no sense. I find it really silly actually. I've gone over it and over it and I keep reaching the same conclusion; There is no god. I ask my self, if god created us then who or what created god and why? If god created us how come he srewed us up so bad, ie disease, birth defects etc. Lets not forget about natural disaters, hmmm remember the tsunami? now really, god thought that was OK why??? What about all the different religions? What about all the different gods?I always say this, if there is a god then it should show him/herself to me and hey then I'll believe, I don't think thats a lot to ask. But in the end it comes down to this, there is no proof of a god, none whatsoever, but lots of things to suggest that there isn't. God did'nt create us, we created god. And we are delusional.
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Aug 10, 2005 22:47:45 GMT -5
Ok i looked it up and i was wrong on this point but still my point remains valid.
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Post by vertigo on Aug 11, 2005 14:18:12 GMT -5
B33, why do bad things happen to good people? Not everything can be down to karma. When a tsunami strikes a hotel, it doesn't choose who to kill.
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b33
Broken-in Plebe
Posts: 57
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Post by b33 on Aug 12, 2005 14:47:27 GMT -5
a) God knows that suffering is going on (omnipresent), b) God has the power to stop that suffering (omnipotent), and c) God wants to stop that suffering (omnibenevolent).
and yet, In My Humble Opinion, there's plenty of suffering out there.
God knows theres suffering, hes aware of it, but at the same time you have to think that the shit life you think it is now, its not as shitty as we think, its just how it is due to certain people. and you disbelive beacuse of birth defects, but I disagree, beacuse people with birth defects seem, to have information that does have meaning in life if you have ever meet them, it wasnt GOD who defected the person, most the people who come with defects are from there parents, some birth defects are random, but thats besides the point.
And you fail to understand the force of nature, when the Tusnami hits, it does take inniocent lifes, but thats nature, nothing you can do, and its somthing you got to look to understand. Now another thing, are life is so based on NATURE, everything is here beacuse of nature, are rain, snow, wind, everything, all that is controlled by itself and works in unicin with eachother,
Now, what you must also look to relise, is GOD is wiser then, you me and everyone, hes the reason there is life, and hes the only one who you can trust, Now, to compare yourself to GOD, is to compare your self to somthing you cant really imagine, we arnt quite on GODS level yet, so you cant be quick to judge and set stipulations on him, just beacuse, you look at a few BAD things, which could even be a good thing in its own way, and say wow, what kind of person would allow this person to live with no arms? no legs?
p.s. To sit there and say Can GOD heat a burrito up to a limit that he coudnt even it it, thats just like me making somthing like this up,
Can GOD create a SUN? a SUN thats been shinin for damn near ever, and still continues to grow are MOTHER EARTH, and us?
Lol just as well as GOD can heat it up to make it so he cant eat it, he can make it so he can eat it, but... When you sit there and put a path out for GOD to do in your own eyes, what benifit will that be to you? besides prove that he is real? and now you submit yourself to him beacuse hes ur daddy?
nooo, GOD is on his level and no one is on that level, so first off your testing your GOD, by saying can he do this? which is such a stupid thing to ask, beacuse we can do that areself, now... of coruse like everyone, know one knows where GOD came from, its mind boggaling to me, beacuse if I want to look at life LOGICALY at all, Ill picture it like HOW DID 1 spec of DUST come from some where if there is NO SPACE, NO NOTHING, how can SOMTHING come from NOTHING if there has to be a starting POINT, the thing is, you have the proff in front of you, and you have yourself a life ahead of you, weather you life it or not, now it says everyone has there PURPOSE in life, weather it be BIG or SMALL, even the nats that fly around, worms,
If you can channel out your thoughts for LOGIC, beacuse when it comes to GOD as of RIGHT NOW, there is no great LOGIC behind it, but, the possibility will always be there,
I mean this,
Albert Einstine says this, Albert Einstein: No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.
NOTHING WILL EVER BE FOUND THAT CAN RULE OUT GOD BEING TRUE JUST BEACUSE HIS OMNIPOET SELF WILL ALWAYS BE THERE, AND EVERYTING THAT THERE IS TODAY, ANGLES TWOARD PROVING THERE IS A GOD, NO PROFF CAN EVER REALLY PROVE THAT HE IS NOT REAL, OR UNPRESENT..
What that means, is you wish to belive hes not real, with no substatial proff, but yet you stlil dont accept him to be real with no substantial proff, now im not sure if thats HOW GOD works, but I know hes real, and someone should try to spit a FACT OUT TO ME THAT HES NOT REAL. (although My faith right now know's that theres no solid fact that there is no GOD)
Also try to picture this, You know how some times you prank a friend and they can fell really down, beacuse what they are seeing perhaps you destroy there car, there like all sad, and fighting though it, but then you have your friend whos pullin a prank on you, and he knows in just 3 days your giong to be just happy beacuse you have a nwe car in the shop being made... Now being OMNIPOET, you must see he sees everything, and although it may look bad at one angle, wait later down the road to see the 1 degree different angle it holds to answer your logic.
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 12, 2005 15:01:59 GMT -5
So much was said, yet nothing was said at all. You say:
...which totally ignores what I explained to you at length about negative argumentation and the the burden of support. Did you even read that? Also, why should we believe you? You've offered nothing than your say so in support of your stance. Your stance thus has no more validity to it than many other religions or groups such as the Raelians.
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b33
Broken-in Plebe
Posts: 57
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Post by b33 on Aug 12, 2005 15:37:28 GMT -5
Oh, I speak of GOD like that, just beacuse its such a standard to me, take my word as the human I am, I express my self as I wish just as you express yourself aginst my GOD. Now, If you truely want to trust me, and try to understand spirituality, which to you all I think may be a unbelivable blessing, but read this.. bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21014I just read this post, and learned some stuff, this post has more information and wisdom then ive read in such a long time. Any way, I wish some of you would be happy about my posting instead of giting irritated right away... Maybe my JOY doesnt show, or maybe your kindness is just absent, but I really encourage you to belive.
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Post by solidsquid on Aug 12, 2005 16:14:46 GMT -5
Do you read anything I post in reply to yours?
One more time:
1) Most of us here were at one point god-believing, worshipping, church attending Christians. You assume that we are "against" your God. Why would we oppose something we don't even accept the existence of as being reality? Does this not follow for you?
2) The link you posted is nothing I (and I will wager to say most others here) haven't seen before, let alone pelted with repeatedly. By the same logic (or rather lack thereof) I could utilize any other "sacred" text to support a completely different idea and accuse you of being blinded by a false god.
3) We're not happy about your incessant proselytizing becuase many of us have ruminated this issue over the period of years, not on the air of some whim. Our kindness becomes absent in the face of anonyance and ignoring all replies to only continue with your preaching.
4) I would encourage you to try and think for yourself.
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Post by vertigo on Aug 12, 2005 17:30:22 GMT -5
You can't imagine him because he's undefined.
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