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Post by vertigo on Dec 9, 2005 15:57:44 GMT -5
But God sees everything...
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Post by Pilgrim on Dec 10, 2005 15:01:47 GMT -5
But God sees everything... But you don't!
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Post by vertigo on Dec 11, 2005 8:30:49 GMT -5
Huh?
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Dec 12, 2005 11:26:10 GMT -5
Ok so pilgrim what your asking for is categorical who is doing as they do to obtain the favor of God or the favor of the pious. Well this is actually rather simple. If the wish is to be one with God in heaven, and only those who obtain the favor of the father can get there then I suppose it would include every one who is actively trying to get into heaven. Also look at prayers. Most people only pray for what they want, or for something to happen. I have seen very few people prey for God or strictly to feel one with their God. So you could also include any one who preys for their own accord or the accord of others
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Post by Pilgrim on Dec 15, 2005 1:00:30 GMT -5
Ok so pilgrim what your asking for is categorical who is doing as they do to obtain the favor of God or the favor of the pious. Well this is actually rather simple. If the wish is to be one with God in heaven, and only those who obtain the favor of the father can get there then I suppose it would include every one who is actively trying to get into heaven. Also look at prayers. Most people only pray for what they want, or for something to happen. I have seen very few people prey for God or strictly to feel one with their God. So you could also include any one who preys for their own accord or the accord of others You say "most people". You have thereby implied that some do indeed pray unselfishly. The biblical mandate is to pray in accordance with the will of God. There are many martyrs of the faith who have given their lives unselfishly because they prayed unselfishly.
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The Reservoir Dog
Seasoned Citizen
I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with em' later.
Posts: 136
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Post by The Reservoir Dog on Dec 15, 2005 17:24:56 GMT -5
No they don't pray unselfishly every person who prays is doing it so they can get brownie points with god and get eternal salvation. If you are religous every so called good deed is for yourself in the end to make sure you get into heaven or are reincarnated as something good. Even saying the bible or whatever tells you to do it is still for the purpose of getting in good with god. there is no such thing as a selfless act, ever.
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Post by Pilgrim on Dec 17, 2005 22:09:03 GMT -5
No they don't pray unselfishly every person who prays is doing it so they can get brownie points with god and get eternal salvation. If you are religous every so called good deed is for yourself in the end to make sure you get into heaven or are reincarnated as something good. Even saying the bible or whatever tells you to do it is still for the purpose of getting in good with god. there is no such thing as a selfless act, ever. The biblical understanding of selfishness is to seek one's own advantage to the complete exclusion of others. It is the Christian's desire that others enjoy the same faith he has. That is not selfishness. To desire something better is not being selfish. Is it selfish for a child to want to please his parents?
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Post by vertigo on Dec 18, 2005 6:48:36 GMT -5
Pilgrim, you make a mistake here. Reservoir Dog has put forward an argument; your job is take him at his meaning. Don't try to nullify his argument by redefining the terms he uses. Take him at his meaning.
If you are trying to make the point that Christians' helping others is not to their own detriment, that is exactly what Reservoir Dog is saying. It is to their own benefit, which is why they do it ultimately.
If you accept they do it for their own sake, stop arguing.
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The Reservoir Dog
Seasoned Citizen
I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with em' later.
Posts: 136
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Post by The Reservoir Dog on Dec 18, 2005 18:29:21 GMT -5
Is it selfish for a child to want to please his parents? Yes it is because the child is doing it so they can get that pat on the head and praise for being such a good boy/girl. As for your statement that religion is about inclusion that is bullshit because ultimately it is about being in a better place when you die, and getting all of the meaningless brownie points you can to secure that spot. That is why you bring people in because your religion tells you to so it must be a good thing which gets you into your fairy-tale place in the sky faster. Your argument holds no water. Thank you Vertigo, I'm glad someone gets what I'm going at.
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Dec 19, 2005 16:39:43 GMT -5
I think a simple question will put this all at ease. Pilgrim let me ask you something. If there were one person who was to burn in a eternal hell of fire and brimstone would you lay your self down and take his place while he went to heaven. Or if that is too difficult think of how many people it would take for you to give your place in heaven away. Mind you this is with complete knowledge that you will burn in this hell of yours for eternity. ..................................................................................................................................................................................... Ok now that you have thought of the number if it is any more than one than it is not a selfless act.
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Post by Pilgrim on Dec 22, 2005 13:45:26 GMT -5
I think a simple question will put this all at ease. Pilgrim let me ask you something. If there were one person who was to burn in a eternal hell of fire and brimstone would you lay your self down and take his place while he went to heaven. Or if that is too difficult think of how many people it would take for you to give your place in heaven away. Mind you this is with complete knowledge that you will burn in this hell of yours for eternity. ..................................................................................................................................................................................... Ok now that you have thought of the number if it is any more than one than it is not a selfless act. For me to offer myself in this way would be insulting to the one who has already made the ultimate sacrifice.
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Post by Pilgrim on Dec 22, 2005 13:48:31 GMT -5
Ok so pilgrim what your asking for is categorical who is doing as they do to obtain the favor of God or the favor of the pious. Well this is actually rather simple. If the wish is to be one with God in heaven, and only those who obtain the favor of the father can get there then I suppose it would include every one who is actively trying to get into heaven. Also look at prayers. Most people only pray for what they want, or for something to happen. I have seen very few people prey for God or strictly to feel one with their God. So you could also include any one who preys for their own accord or the accord of others I relinquish all my prayers ultimately to the will of God. If your son asks you for some food, he is being selfish according to your way of thinking.
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Post by vertigo on Dec 22, 2005 14:25:35 GMT -5
Well I wish God would will you away. If you leave now, I just might be convinced.
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Post by Pilgrim on Dec 22, 2005 23:15:15 GMT -5
Well I wish God would will you away. If you leave now, I just might be convinced. Again, would you call your son selfish if he asked for something that would be good for him?
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The Reservoir Dog
Seasoned Citizen
I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with em' later.
Posts: 136
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Post by The Reservoir Dog on Dec 23, 2005 0:25:45 GMT -5
We know what's good for us though and unlike you it is living in the real world. You think you are the frst theist to ever come to this forum and try to convince us otherwise, you are dead wrong. Do yourself a favor and read all the bullshit that B33 threw at us and save yourself a whole lot of time and us the headache of dealing with you and your fairytale existence.
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