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Post by necroshine on May 15, 2005 6:55:48 GMT -5
www.deviantart.com/deviation/18341098/This came from a nazi belt buckle. I changed it a bit and made it American with the arrows and leaves. But both say god is with us. I find it disturbing what people will do in the name of god. Today in America we think we are doing well by putting god on everything. “god bless America” we are the richest nation in the world. I thought that Christianity was a poor mans belief, The religion of the slaves. Why should god care about America? You know its easier for a rich man to pass through an eye of a needle than get into heaven. Why should any American believe that they will get into heaven? We live like kings compared to the way other countries live. We complain about getting fat while others around the world die of starvation. I know I am alone when I say that our view of god does more harm than good. i say that because people that say that the church does good by providing food to the hungry around the world and spreading his word. If you have to have a god looking down on you so you do good, then you are not giving from the hart. You just want to get into heaven. Would you give without the idea of god? Are you a good person? Why do you need a god to keep you honest? Don’t do things in the name of god but out of the love of your fellow man. What is wrong in that? Besides if Jehovah doesn’t send you to hell Allah will.
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Post by william on May 18, 2005 4:36:02 GMT -5
I can not speak for all theists on this one as most do consider works as earning salvation, I as a protestant, do works as an act of gratitude for the salvation that has been payed for by Christ, and yes some things I do for others is just because it feels good to help others.
I would agree that it is very unfortunate what some do in Gods name.
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Post by necroshine on May 18, 2005 5:48:11 GMT -5
People who believe don’t want to see the clear contradictions that are in the bible. People want to live forever so badly that they are willing to lie to themselves and everyone else.
God is pure good, even if it made the devil.
Humans had to be made by god because we are complicated we could not have just come to be. God by definition is more complicated than we are but yet he has always been here.
God loves everyone, but most people on earth will go to hell without a question of why they don’t believe in god.
at least we ask why people kill others before we know what we will do with them.
God doesn’t seem to think like that.
Unfortunate? Wow! What an understatement.
The Spanish inquisitions was unfortunate? Nazi slaughter of the Jews was a misunderstanding? When my sister broke her foot that was unfortunate. The Salem witch trails was murder in gods name. its wrong for us to do these things. I guess 9-11 was just a mistake. Why would you want to follow a god that wants us to kill each other? Why would you worship a god that says to kill your children if they talk back to you? Was it a good thing that god toured one of his favorite men to satisfy the devil? Plus why would this all loving thing have a favorite person to begin with? Why would this god ask a man to kill his son for him? would you kill your son in gods name? why do you want blessing from a god that wants you to kill gay people or people from other beliefs? God doesn’t show love or concern for his creation. Not the way I see it. if he can drown the world for mans sins what did the dogs in the world do? but yet they die along with all other creatures just so man can die. Can not every man and woman have a heart attack in the earth. Die quickly instead of in fear and drowning? Its ok to you that god kill all the children on the earth and send them to hell for what other people did on the earth?
I know you can justify all this in many ways. You will I know. All I’m saying is look at the things and the ideas that you think is just and see if god goes by them. does he? would you ask one son to kill another son of yours? God doesn’t seem to have a problem doing that. why would you?
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Post by william on May 18, 2005 14:15:01 GMT -5
People who believe don’t want to see the clear contradictions that are in the bible. People want to live forever so badly that they are willing to lie to themselves and everyone else. God is pure good, even if it made the devil. Humans had to be made by god because we are complicated we could not have just come to be. God by definition is more complicated than we are but yet he has always been here. God loves everyone, but most people on earth will go to hell without a question of why they don’t believe in god. at least we ask why people kill others before we know what we will do with them. God doesn’t seem to think like that. Unfortunate? Wow! What an understatement. The Spanish inquisitions was unfortunate? Nazi slaughter of the Jews was a misunderstanding? When my sister broke her foot that was unfortunate. The Salem witch trails was murder in gods name. its wrong for us to do these things. I guess 9-11 was just a mistake. Why would you want to follow a god that wants us to kill each other? Why would you worship a god that says to kill your children if they talk back to you? Was it a good thing that god toured one of his favorite men to satisfy the devil? Plus why would this all loving thing have a favorite person to begin with? Why would this god ask a man to kill his son for him? would you kill your son in gods name? why do you want blessing from a god that wants you to kill gay people or people from other beliefs? God doesn’t show love or concern for his creation. Not the way I see it. if he can drown the world for mans sins what did the dogs in the world do? but yet they die along with all other creatures just so man can die. Can not every man and woman have a heart attack in the earth. Die quickly instead of in fear and drowning? Its ok to you that god kill all the children on the earth and send them to hell for what other people did on the earth? I know you can justify all this in many ways. You will I know. All I’m saying is look at the things and the ideas that you think is just and see if god goes by them. does he? would you ask one son to kill another son of yours? God doesn’t seem to have a problem doing that. why would you? Necroshine, I will agree that "unfortunate" was an understatement. As I read through a post like this, I find a few good questions that would make for a reasonable discusion, but they are mixed with several that an inteligent person like yourself, doesnt really need help undersanding. and then there are some gross misstatements that (do to your intelect) I can only assume are intentional. Add all this together and I assume it is not a rational descusion you are looking for but rather you just want to rant. |
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Post by necroshine on May 18, 2005 16:51:02 GMT -5
I do just want to rant. So don’t get worked up about what I say.
But I don’t think my views are off in any way. I know the christans think about god in a different way than I do. I use to be a believer. Now I’m not. but if you want to discuss something I said please let me in on what you are thinking.
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Post by william on May 19, 2005 4:46:28 GMT -5
Many of the things you seem to be refering to had specific purposess and reasons. they in and of themselves may seem harsh but in the broader context make more sence. some of the other things were specific for that time and place and are not ment for today. Jesus summed up the law by saying love the Lord you God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neibor as your self. he did not say to kill anyone. though he did imply on one ocasion that we could use force to defend our selves. I will not deffend the witch trials, the inquisition or the 911 atacks these were atrocities that should not have happend.
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Post by necroshine on May 20, 2005 5:31:04 GMT -5
If the law is out dated like you say then why hold on to it?
The bible tells you to kill your child if he/she misbehaves. It tells you to kill gay people. It does say to kill people and not just in self defense.
The bad things that happen in history 911 and such, only happen in gods name. it is the only reason that the witch trials was able to happen. If it wasn’t for the notion that witches was evil and god wants us to protect ourselves from them then that could not have happened. Do you not see what I’m getting at? “plus that is my rant, people only see what they want to see.” There are billions of possibilities people only chose this one. you do not have to defend anything. There is no defense in what god tells us to do. the simple fact that the bible tells us that god plays favorites flies in the face of what a god should be. Why should you follow a god that would hurt one of his favorites just to please the devil? “Job” ring a bell?
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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Post by GodsAreUs on May 20, 2005 9:10:28 GMT -5
I think God is only with those who so choose. In other words, those who do not choose, like myself and most people on this board, are essentially exempt from the guilt, control and shame that is carried with a belief in God.
I am in no way implying that God exists in any form that can influence a non-believer. I am saying that believers find their solace in the perceived external source called “God.” Non-believers find their comfort and peace internally, and not in any selfish sense, either. What is wrong with utilizing one’s own rational thought to attach meaning to life? Why must meaning even exist? We are nothing more than self-aware, carbon-based life forms. Any meaning, by its own virtue, is superfluous. “So what do we have to live for?” you might ask. We have to live for that which we perceive is important to us. For some it’s food, women, and beer. For some it’s their kids and their jobs. For me it’s my wife and our equal desire to partake in the never ending search for knowledge.
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Post by necroshine on May 20, 2005 18:46:13 GMT -5
I agree with you godrus,
Have you seen a show called “what the @#%# do we know?”
That is what it is called. Watch it if you can. It talks about what is real. They say we are god so your name fits right in. it goes so far as to say we all are on. When you get to the smallest scale you can measure.
I live for my art. I don’t have any kids but I want to expand my art ability. You have to have a hobby in life I think. At least I do.
I understand why people believe in god. What I don’t understand is why would people just take other peoples word that god is real? When you can’t get anyone to believe in anything you say unless you have an act of congress behind you. People more often than not will not believe what you say when you say something. You have to prove what you are saying before someone believes you. So why is the subject of god different. Except for a god that you did not grow up around. Which should be a clue to the believers out there. They are an atheist against all other gods but the one they grew up around. We just believe in one less god than they do. I would think that would be the biggest clue of all. Don’t you?
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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Post by GodsAreUs on May 20, 2005 19:10:42 GMT -5
I've seen it. I bought it on the recommendation of a friend. And yes, my username is a direct result of the film (and the belief that humans created God). I think some of it is suspect, but the science part, and how it essentially puts the kibosh on organized religion makes it a must see.
Hobbies are important. I play piano and guitar. I can’t read music but it doesn’t matter. I’ve composed a lot of songs. They may all suck when placed next to the work of professionals, but who gives a rat’s ass? I enjoy them. My wife enjoys them. That’s ok.
I agree with the subjectiveness of faith. Who’s right? We all are… at least when it comes to making the decision of what’s right for ourselves.
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Post by william on May 21, 2005 17:15:55 GMT -5
If the law is out dated like you say then why hold on to it? The bible tells you to kill your child if he/she misbehaves. It tells you to kill gay people. It does say to kill people and not just in self defense. The bad things that happen in history 911 and such, only happen in gods name. it is the only reason that the witch trials was able to happen. If it wasn’t for the notion that witches was evil and god wants us to protect ourselves from them then that could not have happened. Do you not see what I’m getting at? “plus that is my rant, people only see what they want to see.” There are billions of possibilities people only chose this one. you do not have to defend anything. There is no defense in what god tells us to do. the simple fact that the bible tells us that god plays favorites flies in the face of what a god should be. Why should you follow a god that would hurt one of his favorites just to please the devil? “Job” ring a bell? Can you give a scripture reference where it tells ME to kill someone? the bad things that happen in history only happen in Gods name? what god did Joseph Stallen serve? how about Mao? pol pot ring a bell? that whole line about more deaths being caused by religion is a myth, Communism has far surpassed religion for atrocitys. We dont need to say what communism professes in regards to god do we? when it comes to atheism vrs theism the atrosity card is not a good one to play. |
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Post by william on May 21, 2005 17:22:21 GMT -5
My grandfather was in the SS and spent 7 years in a french prison after testifying at Nuremburg. though hitler used the fasad of Christianity to gane power. the God of the Bible had nothing to do with nazi idiology. did you change the words also ? I notice they are in english. |
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Post by necroshine on May 22, 2005 18:26:15 GMT -5
i'm so sorry what your grandfather went through. worse than anything i will ever know.
Yes I did change the words. That is what the words say on the picture I got it from.
Yes I can, but keep in mind that it is all in interoperation isn’t it? to me it says to kill people, to you it may not. but I will want to know why.
First. - Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Second - Num 35:17 And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he [is] a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
You know eye for an eye. That clearly tells you to kill others. But hold on I have more.
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Cheat and both are to be killed.
Lev 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
Here if you have sex with an animal you should die and the animal should die also. The animal had no say so in this, why kill it?
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, [and] all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name [of the LORD], shall be put to death.
FUCK GOD!!!!!!
Now you have gods blessings to kill me. actually you have gods commandment to kill me. Which puts you in a tough spot, If you don’t kill me then you are not doing gods will.
And lets not forget my favorite one.
Lev 20:13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
You have to kill gay people. If your friends with someone that is gay I will see you in hell.
You wanted to know where it says to kill someone in the bible. I showed you. Now if your kid curses you, you have to kill him.
You have to kill me because I cursed the lord.
And you have to kill gay people.
I can show you where you kill other people of different faiths but why bother. Either you will see what I am saying now or you will ignore it and go on with your life still thinking that god is great.
This is where the argument breaks down for us. Now I will still go one with life claiming that god is still the monster we have always made him out to be. (we made god that is why he is flawed) research what I have said, please use the king james version of the bible. Don’t use a “ nice cute today’s version” of the bible. Then you can go to a todays version and see how people have changed the bible. Keep in mind that the king James version is nice and cute compared to the older bibles of that time. God is really a dictator that would put Hitler to shame. Why would god ask a man to kill his own son as a sacrifice to god? That is just sick.
So what are you going to do? do you still believe? I’m sure you do and many, many defense ideas are going through your head. How to argue against this? don’t worry about standing up for this. you can not defend this no more than you can defend the 9/11 attacks.
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Post by william on May 24, 2005 3:58:42 GMT -5
I will get back to you on this ,I m to tierd right know, Levitical law was for a specific people(the Jews) at that specific time.
my Grandfather probably deserved much worse than he got.
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Post by necroshine on May 24, 2005 5:01:32 GMT -5
Hello William,
While you look up all this please don’t tell me that god would give some people laws to go by and not others. If so then the 10 commandments doesn’t need to be followed because you’re not a Jew.
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