Jewel
Broken-in Plebe
I don't want the world, I just want your half.
Posts: 80
|
Post by Jewel on Apr 7, 2004 16:34:50 GMT -5
The first religions, formed when the human was much more ignorant Sometimes I wonder about this. I'm pretty sure humans are still ignorant, but it's because they choose ignorance. The world is too scary & ugly, so they hide in their little religious fantasy worlds & that makes them happy. Jewel
|
|
livinitup
Broken-in Plebe
In God I trust
Posts: 69
|
Post by livinitup on Apr 18, 2004 14:07:56 GMT -5
I first just want to give my thumbs up to tamara and mark. I too am a Christian Theist, I think this would make for a better board if you had both groups on, for the simple fact that its one thing to sit and say something against someone without that someone being there to defend themselves. Not to mention the "proof" parts of these posts are somewhat skewed by our own biases. So it works better to have both types running around and having open discussions.
I would love to disagree with this figure, 92 percent is quite high especially when you see how many atheists there are just on these types of boards. I think mark covered all my points alrdy in his posts, whats interesting is the historical evidence that back Jesuses life. For those who dont think he was real, you can def read other books (none Christian) and find he was a real guy. For instance Josephous a Jewish Historian in around 100 AD wrote about him saying something to the effect of "They call him the son of man" and that he "preformed magic and mirricles (such as healings)" which is interesting he did not believe in Jesus however he recorded some of the people of the time as believing in him. He also talked about how Jesus was Crusified. This is one account of a non christian source. There are some others, i suggest reading into it a bit more. Also imagine the scrutiny back then telling people you believe in Jesus back then was a death sentence, yet many people did and died for it, they must have seen or known something of importance eh?
|
|
tim
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 6
|
Post by tim on Apr 18, 2004 20:25:13 GMT -5
hi all, am a christian and have read this thread.
i would just like to clear up a couple of points (that i dont think have been cleared up already)...
i have read that i "believe in an imaginary friend who i cant talk to". now the santa claus analogy didnt really figure (santa (or so it is suggested) may have magical powers but god (or so i believe) is omnipotent; would the existance of santa explain the existance of the universe and mankind?), but anyway, thats been cleared up. however, other atheists (and im honestly not putting you down or anything, i respect your opinions!) have said that in principle they agree this is an odd trait in christians. christianity is largely, if not wholly, based on faith. thats a word we use a lot. and it effectively means... you believe in something that cant prove its there, or that will leave you with doubts. every christian doubts. but that doesnt mean we're mentally ill (and yes yes i know you altered your statement about that, but your sentiment was the same) and that doesnt make them an imaginary friend, just something that cant jump out and say hi. but thats the point, if jesus came up to every christian and said "hey! cheers for believing in me... well done, i do exist!" it wouldnt work. we cannot prove to you that there is a god. we just believe in him. we have faith, not evidence. you may interpret that every christian you meet will say "what does jesus mean to you?" after you've spoken to them for 3 seconds, but we're not all like that. most christians will only ever try to lead you to the outskirts of christianity and let you find your way. not try to prove to you every last inch of the bible.
secondly, the idea that christianity is merely something for the weak to shelter behind from the problems life throws up. christianity works IN LINE with life, it is not a life in itself or something to hide away in. i dont say you cant get through life without god guiding you, merely that i find it a heck of a lot easier! also your statement "when somethings good you thank god, otherwise blame the devil" (not word for word i know) - it is not always down to god that good things happen (christians believe in free choice) though he may have guided me there, he doesnt intervene in huge ways, and i do not blame the devil if it all goes wrong - it is again down to me - it could be down to me giving in temptation to evil/the devil, but thats my fault. i have faults. everyone has faults.
also, dont know how clearly this was corrected - you are not judged at the gates of heaven based on whether you have been good or bad. the phrase you'll often hear is "accepting jesus as your saviour" - this is what the bible states as the criterion for getting into heaven. no matter how good you think you are, you have sinned. no man can be perfect, hence jesus christ died on the cross (or so i believe) so my sins would be forgiven. bad deeds, even murder, can be forgiven by god through true faith and repentence.
this replys a bit thrown together ... please comment on anything you want to and any mistakes will have light shed upon 'em!
laters.
|
|
livinitup
Broken-in Plebe
In God I trust
Posts: 69
|
Post by livinitup on Apr 18, 2004 21:02:30 GMT -5
well all i can say is WOW,
nice work tim...wow...
|
|
livinitup
Broken-in Plebe
In God I trust
Posts: 69
|
Post by livinitup on Apr 18, 2004 21:23:01 GMT -5
you may interpret that every christian you meet will say "what does jesus mean to you?" after you've spoken to them for 3 seconds, but we're not all like that. most christians will only ever try to lead you to the outskirts of christianity and let you find your way. not try to prove to you every last inch of the bible. I would like to further add to this part. I dont know where alot of atheists say they hate christians because they are so bother some, to those that have not this is not for you. Personally i dont normally walk up to someone and say hey let me tell you about Jesus. Most of my friends who are Christian would agree with that fact. I try not to bother people unless they look like they really need it. The reason we do tend to shair it however is because we feel its great news. Most of the time if someone trys to talk to you about Jesus or God just say im not interested thanks, or something to that effect and they should leave you alone. This is just a false hood, its the same as me saying that atheism is for the people that are to narrow minded and dim witted to see the bigger picture. After talking to YAW and reading some of his posts i can see this is not true for example. And personally I dont consider Emmitt Smith, or Deion Sanders weak, Yes they are Christians look it up. Just to throw out a few. Anyhow just a few more thoughts Thanks Tim.
|
|
|
Post by Hilly on Apr 19, 2004 9:03:44 GMT -5
. no matter how good you think you are, you have sinned. no man can be perfect, hence jesus christ died on the cross (or so i believe) so my sins would be forgiven. This is an example of a problem I have with many christians, their always so bloody hard on themselves. Always having sinned, no ones perfect, and on and on. It can't be good for ones self esteem.
|
|
livinitup
Broken-in Plebe
In God I trust
Posts: 69
|
Post by livinitup on Apr 19, 2004 9:11:08 GMT -5
But you must understand we know it and accept it. Its not like a person saying CRAP im fat i hate myself. We know we sinned, we accept it we move on, we dont dwell on the fact, we celebrate Jesus instead. Makes for a happier life...
|
|
tim
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 6
|
Post by tim on Apr 19, 2004 10:28:13 GMT -5
This is an example of a problem I have with many christians, their always so bloody hard on themselves. Always having sinned, no ones perfect, and on and on. It can't be good for ones self esteem. lol, yeh. you've got a point. however it must be worse surely for someones self-esteem to strive to be as good as you can and still find faults? and dont get the impression that we do something wrong and say "meh, it happens - remember the faults thing we always bang on about?" - if a christian truly has faith they will WANT to live as good as they can, in order to please god and thank him and so forth. so its not really being hard on ourselves, its facing facts - as we have free choice, no-one can resist temptation and not sin.
|
|
livinitup
Broken-in Plebe
In God I trust
Posts: 69
|
Post by livinitup on Apr 19, 2004 10:36:10 GMT -5
Correct Tim,
Being on both sides of the page i have been through both. And my life tends to be happier on the Christian side. We want to strive to make God happy with us, so we do try to live good lives and we do screw up, which is what repenting is for. And yes there is alot of emotion that goes with that. You feel you let God down and you can make yourself very sad. My question is for an atheist yes you dont feel you upset God, but is there still not someone else you might upset. Say for instance a parent or a friend, and your Concience (sp on that) does it not make you feel bad when you do wrong? But like Tim said we know we sin, we try to minimize it but we are not perfect, we accept it and go along with it, and often times we feel ALOT better after we do appologize for our indiscressions, because God forgives us, unlike your friend or parent that might not, then you continue to feel bad. So over all i would say it would be more of a self esteem letdown to not have someone you can appologize to and not be able to know its ok, He has forgivin you.
|
|