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Post by necroshine on Jan 7, 2005 17:51:48 GMT -5
Please try to answer one or two of them. in a intelligent way of course. I will not attack anyone but the idea of god. That is why I’m posting the questions.
#1 the bible says that god is all loving. Then how can he send anyone to hell?
I ask you if it is in your power when your child or any loved one dies, would they go to heaven or hell? Where would you put them? But please don’t tell me that I am going to put myself in hell. There is no way I would do that. I can stand right there in front of god looking at him forever, If it meant not going to hell. Think about it. I will not walk into hell. if you was told to go to hell by god would you just go ahead and walk yourself down there, happy to do it? If I end up there it is because he sent me there. What is he going to do kill you?
#2 are you expecting to be perfectly happy in heaven?
Now to be happy 100% of the time is hard. Anything can make you sad. Now with the thought that there are people being toured forever, Can you possibly be happy up in heaven? You should have good feelings and love for everyone. If anything should happen to anyone in this ultimate happy place you should feel bad for them and your heart would go out to them. why would that be any different for the people in hell? that would be selfish of you if you didn’t care for the people in hell. Some good people will be in hell burning forever just because they didn’t believe in god.
#3 How can god be all powerful.
I understand that god can command anything and the idea that he is in control. What do you do for your child? You give him a home and try to make life as comfortable as you can for them and keep all the bad things away. If your child came to you and asked you for something that made him happy and comfortable and it was free, it cost you nothing to give this to him would you? If god is all powerful and anything was in his powers I would think that he would make a world better than this to live. The reason we are at each other is the limited amount of the stuff we have, energy, food and land. Would there be a reason why god wouldn’t do something for us if its free for him to do so. he does love us doesn’t he?
#4 if god is all knowing and has a plain for us, then why pray to him? Do you think that you will change gods mind? Why Are you just doing it to talk and nothing else? Then why would you ask for anything?
#5 Are we more forgiving than god is?
Adam and eve bit an apple. We all have heard of this. It’s the original sin. Because of this we all deserve hell. we are born into sin. Something we can not control. Now how many things has your child done wrong to you. How many times has he or she gone against what you told them to do? do you still hold the first thing that they did wrong against them, or did you forgive them and forget abut it? More to the point would you hold something that your oldest son did against your youngest daughter? Would you view that as fair? Would you want the world to punish you for what your granddad did when he was 20 years old? Why do we forgive our children more than god forgives us? Does he not love us as much as we love our own children?
These questions are basic ideas that go against god. We act more loving than god does. I see more love from the people on earth than what god shows to us in the bible. Please tell me where I’m wrong in all this. I don’t think I am. Do you treat your kids like god treats us? If so I feel sorry for your kids.
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Jan 8, 2005 17:57:14 GMT -5
Here we go *cracks knuckles* He is all loving.But he gave us freewill to love life to the fullest. But many people chose and still do to sin,disobey him,rebuke him,curse him everything.So mankind was destined to burn in hell.But God loved us so much he had his one and only son come to earth in human flesh and die for our sins.He took on every wrong thing we had done and in his broken body he was dead,buried and resurrected.When he rose he was clean but the filth(sin) stayed buried. The bible tells us if you do not accept Christ as the on and only Lord and as the savior you will not be accepted to heaven.What Jesus did is perhaps the greates example of love.He loved us so much he wanted us to have everlasting life with him and God. That my friend is an act of great love. Yes I know I will be happy all the time.In heaven I would praise and love God to the fullest.That's paradise to me. As for knowing others would not be accepted to heaven would not bother me. Why should I be focused on who's getting to heaven or not when I really should be making sure I myself am there.Knowing that I would spend the rest of my days loving and praising God would make my day Whoo boy,if God were to at this very second show me,you and the whole world his power.Everyone would literally shit bricks in their sleep while going numb in their nuts.His power is beyond what our human minds can comprehend.He is maker of heaven and earth.Creator,Lord of Lords and King of Kings. To talk to him.Prayer is meant as a way to talk to God.Ask him questions about things you are unclear about like his word.To give thanks to him to acknowledge him.Without prayer God would not have a way to communicate with us. We wouldn't know him and he wouldn't know us. I am unclear what you mean by this but I'll try to answer.No,we are in no manner or shape more forgiving then God.He died on the cross so that we don't burn in agony forever.He forgives sins many a times. The Cross is the greates example of God's love and mercy.We are inferior to him in truth.We don't deserve his love,mercy or care but he gave it to us and he still does.
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Post by Hilly on Jan 8, 2005 23:17:56 GMT -5
Here we go *cracks knuckles* He is all loving.But he gave us freewill to love life to the fullest. But many people chose and still do to sin,disobey him,rebuke him,curse him everything.So mankind was destined to burn in hell.But God loved us so much he had his one and only son come to earth in human flesh and die for our sins.He took on every wrong thing we had done and in his broken body he was dead,buried and resurrected.When he rose he was clean but the filth(sin) stayed buried. The bible tells us if you do not accept Christ as the on and only Lord and as the savior you will not be accepted to heaven.What Jesus did is perhaps the greates example of love.He loved us so much he wanted us to have everlasting life with him and God. That my friend is an act of great love. Could you possibly stop proselytizeing and answer the original question?
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Post by necroshine on Jan 9, 2005 8:36:18 GMT -5
There was no sacrifice on gods part. To have a sacrifice you must loose something. Jesus came down from heaven, in a blink of an eye (of his time) he was put on the cross and “died” for us. Then he came back to life just to go back to heaven with god. This isn’t a sacrifice. God didn’t loose anything. We have a word for that. Its called fraud.
That is selfish of you isn’t it? so if you can be selfish in heaven what if bobby gets to tell god how great he is more times than you do. will you get jealous also? So you are telling me that you willl tell god how great he is with the knowledge that he is torturing people in hell? I don’t see how.
And how would he show this to us? By killing all of us again? Why does he keep things from us that we need? If your child was hungry would you not do what is in your power to see that he got feed? See god lets us starve. How is that being great? It wouldn’t cost him anything to feed the world but yet we starve. Why? Does this sound like a malevolent god to you ? it does to me.
How can he not know us? He did create us didn’t he? he is all-knowing isn’t he? so he knows us. Give thanks for what? Sending most people to hell forever? you do realize that more people will be in hell than heaven don’t you?
We will only burn because god made hell. do you not see that? What do you mean you don’t understand? Let me put it this way. Does your children deserve your love? What did they have to do to get you to love them? what you said “we don’t deserve god love.” Does that sound right to you? He made us and we don’t deserve his love. How can this be? If anything he doesn’t deserve our love. If I have to so something to make him love me then I don’t want to be in his favor. Let me see. He made me and I have to do something to get him to love me. we have a name for that also. Child abuser. Does it sound like a all loving god to you?
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Jan 9, 2005 15:29:05 GMT -5
What are you talking about?? God had a part of himself on earth.In the form of Jesus,so technically God himself was here on earth and died for our sins.He took on our troubles and sins. God lost his life but was resurrected.It wasn't a fraud
God isn't torturing people in hell. Ever heard of the Chief adversary of God i.e. Lucifer??
He shows us his power everyday.Whether in a newborn baby or the calming of a storm. He has the answers and gives them to us.But he doesn't always give them to us on a silver platter.The answers aren't always accessable.And God does not let us starve.Satan has dominion over earth and tempts and steers people into believing God is part of their problems.That is why so many people curse God because they think he cause them misery or whatnot.And if he ended all the pain and suffering in the world what would people do?? rejoice and start to believe that there is a god and he loves them with all his heart?? or merely turn around and say "Oh what a peculiar circumstance" as mankind has always done?? You see what God does as being selfish or evil.I see it as love.Sure he is wrathful but he is also loving and very caring. He wants the best of us so that we may protect ourselves from harm.Which is why he created the Ten Commandments.
If you see a certain girl everyday in school yet spend no time socializing,talking laughing or hanging out do you know her?? no you are aware she exists and what she looks like.But have not taken the initiative to talk to her.That is what prayer is for.God knows all and knows his creations but if you don't meditate on his word,praise him,talk to him how can he bless you or know your cries if you call on him?? he won't. As for the thanking part I have always been a successful student. Honors straight A's and whatnot yet the moment I get back that test and before I even glance for a milisecond at my grade I give all thanks to God. Why you may ask,because he blessed me with another oppurtunity to either improve my grades or raise it.Some may suggest just to study harder but I believe that when you believe in Jesus's power anything is possible.
We as humans sin,destroy,deceit others and have generally wicked thoughts.In the beginning of time mankind's thought's were that of impure,lustful desires. This is what God saw in his creations. So we don't deserve his love.He created us yes but we go day after day,month after month,year after year sinning.A man may come to God and say "Forgive Lord for I have sinned" and God will say "You are forgiven my child".Next day the man is stealing,lieing and commiting adultery.No repentance in his heart or mind.His mind is set to "Oh,I just say I've sinned and God forgives me so I just move on" but there's no repentance.He'll say the same thing with no guilt in his heart at all. God loves all his children.You need not to something amazing to get his love.But just rejoice through him.Let him take away the sorows you may have.Allow him to heal the wounds you have suffered,let him curse those who curse you,let him fill you with joy and peace and love.
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Post by vegan4truth on Jan 9, 2005 16:20:09 GMT -5
Ah, but god created lucifer and hell. He's responsible.
Will you admit that he created imperfect beings? Will you admit that he's a screwup at the whole creating business? Surely, an all-powerful man behind the curtain could've created a world without evil, and creatures without the nature to sin, and still have given them free will.
Will you have free will in heaven? Or will you just be a mindless robot playing your trumpet? What's to stop this whole deal from happening all over again once you get to heaven? Or does god suddenly take away your free will in heaven?
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Jan 9, 2005 19:20:09 GMT -5
Yes I will have freewill. That is how Satan and the Fallen Angles were banished from Heaven. Satan allowed temptation and jealousy into his heart as he wanted God's throne the fallen angels (demons) joined him and they were cast from heaven. God didn't create harm and evil. Satan did
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Post by solidsquid on Jan 9, 2005 19:42:09 GMT -5
God didn't create harm and evil. Satan did That's pretty straightforward.
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Jan 9, 2005 20:12:36 GMT -5
That's pretty straightforward. Nice try buddy. More like " I form the light and create darkness I bring prosperity and create disaster"
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ToxicMoon
Seasoned Citizen
Delusional One
Posts: 129
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Post by ToxicMoon on Jan 9, 2005 23:09:38 GMT -5
How is that any different?
I guess it depends on which translation of the bible you're using, but essentially both of you said the same thing.
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Post by solidsquid on Jan 10, 2005 1:31:42 GMT -5
Nice try buddy. More like " I form the light and create darkness I bring prosperity and create disaster" The word is translated both ways...dual meaning. Either way your "loving" god allows this to happen. If he so loves his humans, why allow it? This is where you toss out the freewill thing...
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Post by necroshine on Jan 10, 2005 20:26:34 GMT -5
First off its fraud if you call it a sacrifice. 2nd why is it a good thing when an all knowing god can come down here and say look at me I’m perfect and I can live here why can’t you? Keep in mind we are imperfect by design. That is nice that he wanted to feel what death feels like. What was he doing, testing it out to make sure for himself that death was as painful as it could be? He is “perfect and all powerful” of course he can live here. Besides why do that at all? Can he just not forgive us? Remember he did create us like this. So it is his fault we are like this.
He made Lucifer he made hell and he sustains hells existence. If he doesn’t who does? Only god has the power of creation. Lucifer doesn’t have that power. Plus why is god letting Lucifer run loose out of hell anyway? When I go to hell can I get out?
So two drunk people have sex and a new bastard is born that is proof of gods existence.
So a storm front passes by that is proof. Hoooo How about looking over next door to me in the cow pasture and find that steaming pile of cow crap. Look that must be evidence that god exists. See how it steams in the cold mornings dew. See the green flies that hover around it. They are gods creatures, look at them feeding off the cows patty. Oh and look closer see the maggots? That is the love between the flies. How fast its grows just in a few days they too will be flies in search of there own pile of cow crap.
But yet he tells us to break some of them. Why is that? Is it to just confuse us? Please tell me something. God tells us “not to kill” But yet he tells us to kill people who are gay. Why is that?
If god is all knowing then there is NOTHING he doesn’t know. NOTHING! Why pray again?
So your telling me that if you read the bible and talk to god then that will make me pass my math test? How? I would be one of the people who would say study. If you say anything else you are misleading someone. The bible will not help you pass calculus.
So are you saying that you give into temptation here on earth because you have free will but in heaven you will be stronger than satan was? Remember he is gods favorite . Or was till jesus came along. Even if you was able to do it do you think everyone can? If everyone has freewill in heaven what is to stop evil in heaven? Heaven can not be a perfect place if everyone has free will. I can not see how can you?
I’m sorry but you haven’t made much sense here. Please rethink your stance. Or at lease explain yourself better. But please be careful. See god can’t do it very well. Don’t see how your going to patch up the holes and lies in the bible. But if you want to blind yourself to it all. Go right ahead. See that is being grown up isn’t it? Knowing right from wrong. That is the mark of a thinking mind.
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Jan 11, 2005 17:13:55 GMT -5
Jesus's death insured that man would be saved and forgiven of all sins.It wouldn't have been enough for God to just say "My children your sins are forgiven" then we would have just turned around and sinned more. How is it God's fault that we sin,deceit,lie cheat and steal?? it was Satan who brought temptation and sin into the world. He deceived Adam and Eve into believing they'd know more than God.
No, he did not make Lucifer.Satan was once an angel.But he allowed jealousy,temptation and greed into his heart and mind for he wanted God's throne. So he was banished from Heaven where he now has dominion over earth. Most people believe he dwells in Hell which is untrue.At times he travels from Heaven to Hell to earth.Ever heard the story of Job?? Satan came before God and said "If you take this mans blessings away he will curse you" so God said "Prove it then,take away everything this man holds dear but do not hurt the man in any way" Satan took his family,wealth and health.Everything he held dear was gone.But Job held his head high and continued to have a very strong faith in God.So God blessed him with more welath and an even bigger family. God has Hell sustained as a place for the wicked and those who are unsaved. When Jesus returns Satan,hif followers and those who unsaved will be thrown into the burning lake of sulfur where they will burn in agony forever. Also no, (if you do go to hell that is) you can't get out.
New bastard?? what the hell??
Umm what is the point to this??
Here my friend is where you are mislead.God tells us not to kill ever. He doesn't want us to kill gays. Respect them yes,but we as Christians are taught not to like what they do but to respect them. His Ten Commandments are solid and are never meant to be broken
As I have said to praise him and talk to him. When I pray I may say something like "Lord Jesus in your mighty name I humble myself before you.Lord I come before you to give thanks to you.I give thanks to you for blessing my family and friends.For keeping us healthy,safe and together Lord. I give thanks to you for keeping me with food and a shelter.A roof over my head.I ask that for the next day you give me wisdom and guidance in school Lord. Help me focus on my school work and succeed. I ask you keep myself and my family and friends free from any evil or harm. For when I call upon your mighty power I can accomplish anything. In the mighty name of Jesus I pray Amen" like that it is simple
True the bible won't give me tips on how to form equations right. But God's power CAN help me pass along with diligent study. I study hard,call on Jesus's power and I can pass.
I apologize if that may have sounded unclear. In heaven as I have said it is very possible to allow evil or temptation into my mind. I mean that is what happened to Satan. And look at the many angels that followed him. They obviously had freewill if they chose to follow him in rebellion against God. When he was an angel Satan was never God's favortie. God loves all his creations equaly. H eplays no favorites
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Post by necroshine on Jan 11, 2005 21:13:10 GMT -5
But that is exactly what did happen. Jesus came down and dies for us and we still go around sinning. Tell me again how its different? We didn’t stop sinning just because jesus died.
And god let him and still does to this day. Do you let just anyone come around your child and talk to him and do what they please? Or do you protect them from evil people that are out there?
Did he make himself? of course god made Lucifer do you even know what you are talking about?
So when you get to heaven will it be a perfect place? How can it be if there was a war up there? See god loves war so much there was one in heaven and what is to stop it in the future?
Why would god give Lucifer dominion over the earth? He tried to kill god so god let him have earth? Does that make sense to you?
Yes I have. Why would god even be talking to satan in the first place? Didn’t he try to kill him? How many times do you go into a friendly bet with the people who tried to kill you in the past? Plus why would god let satan torture one of his beloved children anyway? That don’t sound like love to me, does it you? If god will sick satan on me why do I want him on my side again?
Plus all the good Muslims of the world, the peaceful Buddhists around the globe, all the nice jews that I know who will not harm a fly, the millions of piece loving Hindus around the world, plus all the other religions that ever was. Thank god that heaven is saved from most of the people that has ever been. How can you worship a god that will send most of the people who has ever lived to hell? do you not see that if the bible is correct then this is the only outcome to it. but yet he says he loves us. How?
If two people who have a child out of wedlock the child is called a bastard. You did know this didn’t you. And you said when a baby is born its proof that god exists.
Well lets see you point to silly things as proof of gods existence thought I would do the same thing. If when a rain storm passing by is proof that god is real then why can’t cowshit be proof also? God made the cow didn’t he?
here my friend is where you don’t know the bible. If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. Leviticus 20:13 Have you read the bible? Does that not say to KILL GAY PEOPLE?
Yes it is for you. Thank you god for my house that I had to work for and pay for myself. and thanks for the food that I bought. And thanks for the wife that I went up to and asked out. And thanks for my bank account that I saved up. How is this gods work? Now I’m being funny a bit, but I use to believe just like you do now. but when I seen that god didn’t nothing for us I can’t thank him. Besides why should I thank him for me working? It is a curse from him to begin with. You know the apple and all. so thank you god for cussing me.
God does play favorites, all the time. What are you talking about? Job was one of his favorites. Satan was the most beautiful angle in heaven. Why would god make him like this if he wasn’t his favorite? We are all god children but yet he has told some of his children to go kill other groups of his children. He shows favoritism all the time. Don’t say he doesn’t.
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Jan 12, 2005 18:56:26 GMT -5
God willing if I do have children yes I'll protect them. God does the same, he protects and guides his children. He made an ANGEL. Not a Chief adversary that opposes him in every way The rebellion broke out because Satan had a weak and wicked mind. God does not create or start war. Lucifer took Earth as dominion for himself. God gave Satan an appointed time for Satan to pay for his actions. Satan chose Earth for himself so that he hoped to gather more to oppose God. It makes sense seeing how God has a set time and plan for everything There are times when people go through a test of faith. Why would God be talking to Satan in the first place?? well Satan felt and still does he deserves God's power. Ever think he may try to still take that?? he tried it on Jesus. All the things God does is for a reason even if we never understand. God himself wasn't torturing Job, but saw in his heart no matter what would happen Job would continue to praise and love him. Well that is why Jesus has not yet returned. God loves us sooo much he wants to give everyone in the whole world a chance to be saved. He allows evil and good in the world. Everyone has a destiny. I can love and worship God because he loves me. He loves me so much. I love him back. I pray and talk to him. I come to him for wisdom and guidance. He does not force me to believe in him. He wants me to have freewill to make my decisions and shape my future. No I did not know that. Hey you learn something new everyday. The birth itself is not proof alone more along the lines oif conception,gestation,labor and whatnot. Well in a way I suppose so. He made the cow so yeah I guess Note: I'm not the biggest bible expert. But I do know enough so that my faith need not stirring. You must understand that in biblical times society was much different. Anything that opposed God or was viewed as being odd or different was considered "evil". You misinterpret. God said "You shall not kill" he means DO NOT KILL AT ALL. No ifs ands or buts. Jesus said "Love thy neighbor" meaning "respect and love eachother". Walk in love is another way to put it. He tells us homosexuals are not welcome in his Kingdom but to respect them, You misconstrue. Yes,you did those things (BTW congrads on your marriage) but God also played a part. He blessed you with an oppurtunity to love a woman in eternal bliss. The abiltiy to go out,work hard and make a living and have comforts others don't. God does not curse you. Think of him as love in its purest essence. My friend, God loves all his children. Gabriel was an arch angel, an angel of High Rank. Why creat a being of a high status possibly to spread his love and word even furthur. He plays no favorites.
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