Iestyn
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 28
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Post by Iestyn on May 4, 2005 16:59:42 GMT -5
I would disagree, I would consider reality objective but our preception of it subjective. Thought is a function of matter in a certain arrangment just as movement is a funtion of matter - I wouldn't consider thought and movement as tangible entities.
When has this been shown?
I would agree with that ;D
Iestyn
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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Post by GodsAreUs on May 4, 2005 19:07:27 GMT -5
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Post by solidsquid on May 4, 2005 19:21:40 GMT -5
I wasn't aware quantum theories made any claims into the functioning of the brain and its emergent properties past the molecular items involved. I think the interaction may be a stretch on the part of those who want to apply the theories to non-applicable areas. Some of the items at the Noetic website have already been researched and found no "spiritual" items to be involved. The items they are wishing to address have already been looked into and passed in the psychologies of Existential, Humanistic, et al. The conclusions they seem to make seem to make a jump in non-sequitur fashion based, I'm sure on some subjective bias. The What the Bleep Do we know thing is suspicious in my, so far, I have yet to see the film, look into it as soon as Ramtha popped up. I noticed Newberg as well. His empirical work is good yet the jumps he made into the philosophical aspect were not logically warranted and ignored other more parsimonious routes of explanation (in his published works). As always I remain skeptical, especially when contrary research exists that has been shown to be sound in methodology and peer reviewed.
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Post by solidsquid on May 4, 2005 19:27:59 GMT -5
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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Post by GodsAreUs on May 4, 2005 19:37:51 GMT -5
I appreciate the depth and fastidiousness of your replies. Just getting my own peer review regarding stuff I find that might spark discussion and debate. I’m not a rabble-rouser, just intensely curious regarding matters of matter, consciousness and reality… and how it ties to spirituality (or lack thereof).
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Post by solidsquid on May 4, 2005 23:57:46 GMT -5
I appreciate the depth and fastidiousness of your replies. Just getting my own peer review regarding stuff I find that might spark discussion and debate. I’m not a rabble-rouser, just intensely curious regarding matters of matter, consciousness and reality… and how it ties to spirituality (or lack thereof). I usually try to keep a open yet critical and skeptical mind.
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thehack
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 16
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Post by thehack on May 11, 2005 13:09:00 GMT -5
This question has been bugging me for awhile. I know its a very generalized question as "some" atheists/theists must communicate to each other for people to become believers and unbelievers. But in general an average debate/descussion goes like this: Atheist: &%%^&%$ Evolution %£££%^ Natural selection. Theist: ? Goddidit! or Theist: £$£%^% God Loves You ££%£^&* whats the point of living without God? Atheist: What the fuck are you talking about? What I'm basically asking is do atheists/theists exist in totally different preceived realities? If thats the case how can any real communication take place? If you were once a really strong atheist/theist and are now the opposite, how did it happen? When did the other side start making sense? Iestyn I would actually like to tackle this: YES. ;D Atheist and theist can communicate. Atheist and theist can even communicate re: their beliefs. My friends and I have had a few civil discussions and as long as we both understand our fundamental differences and don't cross the boundry of civil discussion, we have had no problem whatsoever in continuing a civil debate. It's the boundries you need to set before starting a discussion, and if you can respect their beliefs and they can respect your choice, there's no reason to believe atheist and theist can't have a good discussion. Interestingly enough, my family grew up in a democratic, none theist country, my father was, at best, agnostic, my mother was budhist, and we (me and my two brothers) were brought up without any influence of religion. My father has since converted to Christianity when we moved to the states, my two brothers both married fairly religious families, and have since converted, I, appearantly, am the true die-hard atheist in the family and the only hold out. But I've held long discussions with my brothers on the topic of God. They've never been very understanding of my "choice" so it's been very easy to discuss said topics with them. Oddly enough, neither one believed in the Creationist views but held strong faith in god and the teachings of Christ. Now, if the question is can an atheist and a Christian stay married...Stay tuned.
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