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Post by necroshine on Aug 15, 2005 19:15:35 GMT -5
If god made me and I am who he made. If god knows my future and what I’m going to do. Then why should I have to ask for forgiveness for sinning? If god knows what I’m going to do May 11, 2009 why should I feel guilty for doing it and why should I have to ask for forgiveness? I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER IT. If any Christians wants to answer me this feel free. To everyone else. I know this question is asked every so often. I just want to get the new peoples view on this question and see what they think.
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The Reservoir Dog
Seasoned Citizen
I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with em' later.
Posts: 136
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Post by The Reservoir Dog on Aug 15, 2005 20:01:14 GMT -5
Because god is shallow and wants the gratification of us groveling for forgivness and him saying "I told you so!".
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Post by vertigo on Aug 16, 2005 1:17:47 GMT -5
You should because he gave you free will and doesn't want to interfere. Because you have free will, you must use your own faculties to decide, these same faculties which are flawed and prone to Satan's influence. Its kinda like being thrown into an arena with a straight jacket on and being told to dodge the bull.
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Post by necroshine on Aug 26, 2005 16:33:46 GMT -5
well b33 or anyone else? where is your input on this? come on you have a view on everything else.
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The Reservoir Dog
Seasoned Citizen
I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with em' later.
Posts: 136
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Post by The Reservoir Dog on Aug 29, 2005 21:30:56 GMT -5
B33 doesn't read anything unless he started it; you have to remeber that.
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Post by necroshine on Aug 30, 2005 17:02:20 GMT -5
one sided like most christians. if its not their thoughts they want no part of it.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Aug 31, 2005 10:29:52 GMT -5
Hello. ;D I don't know if you want my input because I have been here before and we have talked about this before but I going to say it anyway. You have the privilege to choose what you want to do. Just because God know doesn't mean he is going to make you do it. Also since he knew you were going to sin on May 11 2009 he sacrificed himself over 2000 years earlier. (That is called thinking ahead)
one sidedness isn't just a Christian trait I is anyone who is arrogant.
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Post by vertigo on Aug 31, 2005 16:39:32 GMT -5
Go tell it to someone who cares.
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Post by UnsavedSwed on Sept 1, 2005 0:14:00 GMT -5
How exactly is it sacrificing for god to put himself in to human form (which he should be able to do at any point since he's "so powerful") and when his human body dies he's still "All powerful" and "exists" for the lack of a better word, That doesn't sound like he sacrificed much, if anything.
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Post by vertigo on Sept 1, 2005 2:33:11 GMT -5
I'm just getting so tired with presenting rational arguments to theists. No matter how much I try to argue the point, people will still come with this tripe.
I'm beginning to think it's foolish to even try to argue with presuppositionalism. They presupposed God exists, etc, and they are impossibly stubborn. It's the need to preach, that's all. This board presents a good opportunity for these sheep to preach.
And when they come to preach we mistakenly think we might make a difference with our wisdom. What fools we are. We should become wise to the truth, once they have entered preach-mode nothing can be done. The don't think rationally, they argue based on what they want.
They want to preach, to spread their cult, and that's exactly what it is. That's why Guerillasaint comes with this 'children of God' moral high ground BS. Read Mein Kampf, you'll see marked similarities. He (Hitler) also uses children to induce guilt. It's time we stopped fooling ourselves that there is a difference, that somehow religion is an arbitrary choice, and is something we can afford to have in our society.
Religion must be fought at every corner, it is a war that must be raged. Rational arguments are not going to do it. I've had enough of arguing. You can argue until you are blue in the face, and it won't get you anywhere.
I imagine the Christians reading this will have a smile playing on their lips. "Look at the foolish atheists, they can't refute Christianity". Here's the thing, that shows it is a cult, and they are too stupid to see it.
So no more pussy-footing around for me. I've had enough of that.
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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Post by GodsAreUs on Sept 1, 2005 9:13:54 GMT -5
Talking to religious fanatics is like trying to change the Government. It is like stirring a bucket of water; after it settles you still have the same situation.
One has to let the sheep graze in their own pasture and sit back and enjoy one’s own pasture where the grass is greener.
I agree that it’s a good idea to let it go unless you want to have fun playing games with their brainwashed defensive minds. Early life brain washing is almost impossible to change. Logic does not enter these people’s brains. Guilt is also a powerful emotion, and challenging God is a taboo in our culture to the vast majority.
Most people do not think, want to think, know how to think, can challenge the composition, and are sheep by nature. Simply follow the pack. Everyone else does it and perceptionally it seems to work. So if I do different I am considered an abnormal out the norm person in society. Most cannot handle any kind of peer pressure so it is easier and more comfortable for them to follow the leader. Besides, "Life Everlasting;" that's a big bubble to break or take away from the weak and gullible. Telling them they are going to rot for eternity for the infinite dirt bath is too horrid for most to accept.
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Post by vertigo on Sept 2, 2005 16:16:57 GMT -5
When one engages in an argument, the ideal is that the two participants will air their views, followed by both choosing the better argument, or refining their own views based on what the other person has said. The ideal result is consensus, where both participants now agree on the best view.
However, when one engages in an argument, one is assuming that the other person will either put forward an argument that trumps one's own, or that the other person will change their stance on hearing the better argument. If this is not the case, and the other participant has no intention of changing their view, if they are incapable of or stubbornly refuse to appraise your viewpoint, the argument is a waste of time.
It is a waste of time because if the other person is going to use an argument that hasn't evolved to the current state by similar arguments in the past, it is a primitive specimen persisted by the hard-headedness of the proponent. There is value in identifying such proponents before time is wasted in arguing with them.
On identifying such hard-headed proponents, what is the correct response? Certainly it is not to engage them in an argument, or even to attempt rational discussion. The correct response is to effect your own view with no concern for their consent. They are hostile, and should be treated as such.
Any attempt by them to appear to be rational is merely subterfuge, there to catch you off guard. The only thing they are interested in is spreading their own dogmatic view, and they will use all sorts of tricks to do it.
We benevolent folks give the benefit of the doubt, and get screwed in the process. It is reaching the point where they are taking over society, in the name of freedom. Freedom to indoctrinate children, freedom to constrain marriage to their own religious connotation, freedom to control the sexual practices of the young by denying them protection.
We must not stand by while this goes on. We must fight it tooth and nail. The time has never been so right. Tolerance only goes so far, and they have gone far beyond the threshold. We must root out the religious scourge once and for all.
It's up to us, so let's get to it. But how can we individuals effect such a vast endeavour? By not giving them sanction. By taking them to task on every discordant issue, whether it be 'God' in the pledge or prayer in schools or the person who walks past you and says "Jesus loves you". Whatever it may be, we must fight it, until such time as it is gone.
Get it out of your head that religion is harmless, an arbitrary decision. It has proved itself not to be. Let's take the fight to them.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Sept 3, 2005 21:58:34 GMT -5
Someone asked a question and I answered it, and it seems that every time a theist answers the question the way I do atheist have the same reactions. So that just means you have one set of beliefs and I have another. If you don't want to talk to me I am not going to be heartbroken. I can tell you I am not brainwashed. I am not Dumb or the same as Hitler. I don't want to be like you and I don't want you to be like me. I don't need you to believe me or even to like me. You assume that I am like every other Christian but you don't know me. So before you call me brainwashed I would think that you would have to first be a psychologist and second study the way I lead my life.
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Post by vertigo on Sept 4, 2005 5:50:03 GMT -5
What a liar you are. People here, foolishly, have been far too generous for far too long. You have just proved what I have been saying. No matter how generous people have been, I buck the trend and suddenly "every time the same reactions".
This shows perfectly well the futility of trying to be civil. It won't have any effect, because the day something otherwise occurs, "every time the same". I hope everyone can now see the truth.
And no, I am not going to discuss these "I can tell you I am not ..." type statements. The time for discussion is over. It would only be a waste of time. That you can't see the similarity to Hitler shows that you aren't prepared to look. I invite any atheist in doubt to grab a copy of Mein Kampf and notice how he uses children to seed guilt (you don't even have to read much of it, just the first chapter), and then compare it to the 'children of God' comment GuerillaSaint gave.
Frankly, I don't trust what you think. You think God is out to help you, 'nuff said.
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Post by solidsquid on Sept 4, 2005 14:37:11 GMT -5
...you would have to first be a psychologist... *raises hand*...only four more years to go.
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