bare
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 47
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Post by bare on Mar 31, 2006 11:00:31 GMT -5
we're humans we fear the unknown we hate not having control we are also (a little) rational we realize we live in a chaotic world, with little or no control over the causes in our lives. so we invent gods or charms with enough power in them to control the events taking place around us, then by throwing our hat in with these powerfull beings or things we gain that control back.
look at sports. almost every player has some lucky hat or shirt or routine to give them the feeling of control over the chaos
now look at religion!
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Post by vertigo on Mar 31, 2006 12:04:36 GMT -5
I think the advent of mysticism was one of the saddest moments in our history, but I think it was inevitable. I just wish we could get past it now.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 1, 2006 1:07:04 GMT -5
God asks us to trust him with all of our heart. We have to give up our control and give it to him. That is why so many people don't believe in God. So what you think is backward when you are talking about the Trinity. Also you may not have control over somethings in your life but you have total control over how you react to life situations.
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bare
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 47
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Post by bare on Apr 8, 2006 4:46:15 GMT -5
God asks us to trust him with all of our heart. We have to give up our control and give it to him. That is why so many people don't believe in God. So what you think is backward when you are talking about the Trinity. Also you may not have control over somethings in your life but you have total control over how you react to life situations. i will agree partially to the last of your statement in that you have some control over how you react to life situations. like yourself curling up in the blanket of delusion so you can have a happy existance
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Apr 8, 2006 18:03:32 GMT -5
You know I think you guys would like Nietzsche, most of his work is right up your ally.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 8, 2006 21:26:19 GMT -5
How do you possibly know that I am delusional? Have you even tried to talk to God or do you allow your reason to block any possibility of know him. I think that you are delusional. You believe in your reason, which at time can be imperfect, to be far more plausible than the belief in God. What exactly do you base the opinion that I am delusional? I don't hide anywhere. Do you hide behind your reason does it may your existence bearable?
(I know no one asked but I just want to say something about him) Nietzsche seems like a man in love with himself. He doesn't understand what it is to have a relationship with Christ. He may be accurate in some ways about the religion of Christianity but in no way is he correct about the nature of God. He assumes that believing in Christ and the bible is archaic but neglects to realize that life is much more that reason. Since he doesn't understand what it is to be a believer he is blinded by his own intellect.
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Apr 9, 2006 12:08:28 GMT -5
Ok now guerrillasaint you say your not delusional? Alright Ill bite and put that to the test. An Agnostic or an Atheist talks to people and attempts to solve problems directly. You a Theist prey to an invisible, supposedly omnipotent god to solve your problems. Agnostics and Atheists try to find a meaning for our own existence individualy. You a Theist turn to a faith that you then hold as a crutch because you cant try to think for your self, you need others. Then getting back to the point of talking to air, we dont, you do.
Also understand this if one begins 'talking to god' as you put it, they automaticly belive. This is because you want to believe it, and you have made a step to do so. In other words you are deludieing your self because you want something to exist. What proof do you have that you are not just talking to your self. Or lets say you are right and God dose exist. What if the one who is talking back is Lusifer not god? you have not one shred of proof my friend. If I were to begin talking to god I know he would speek to me. It is because I want him to. God was created by man my friend not the other way around.
The first human (the first one to think on a not purly physical level I mean) looked up at the sun and could not explain it so saw it as a god. he couldnot cope with something he could not understand so he created a god for it. Night came and he created a god for the moon and for lightning and so on and so forth. Over time there became less and less gods. either because someone decieded they were unnessisary, because they did not want to prey to so many, or it just made some other kind of sence to them. The point is that logicaly it would come down finaly to one god. Oh and what better way to make a god, than to make one that no one could rationaly question. Let me make him omnipotent and perfect. In short you theists are like that kid on the play ground who when you play war always have this perfect imaginary invisible sheild to protect them.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 10, 2006 13:21:25 GMT -5
If you really want to talk to God then Listen right now. You have to let go of what you think is right. You are all caught up in your own truth that you miss out on what really is going on. God has been talking to you all of your life but you have just chosen to do your own thing. The more you refuse to listen to his word the less your are able to hear him. You think that you can do it all by yourself ? God made people with different abilities because we need each other. You haven't gotten anywhere with out God or without the help of someone else. IF you really want to talk to God then you have to ask him and then Listen. You have a chance as long as you are alive to open your eyes. God is the truth and the light.
Be honest with yourself do you really want to talk to God, because everything that you believe would be wrong. (Forget what religion says) Could you take it? Do you want to give up the belief that you are in control of your own destiny. That you are the master of what happens to you. (Hope you never have a problem that you can't fix what are you going to do then?) It isn't a cowardly thing to believe in God. God can give you the courage to do all things. If you thing it is weak to trust in God then you are believing the lie the devil is telling you. When you trust in God it is more that just existing it is truly living . You can honestly see what life is when you come to God and confess your sins. You don't have to worry about what happed to you in the past. What you did it is all forgotten. God isn't going to bring it up again. Do think that I am making this all up? Let me tell you I am not that good. God is talking to you through me because you wanted to hear Him. He will even talk to you directly if would just listen. That is the key to hear God speak. God knows that you want to see some kind of miracle, but you have to have your eyes open to see them. There have been people who have seen miracles and reasoned them away. You are your own worst enemy. He loves you and He is willing to talk to you as much as you want. He is using me to be his hands because I need to learn something and you have also directed the question at me.
God will never Give up on you. He going to keep talking to you even after this. Just listen.
Oh Lucifer isn't that good. Why would he want me to get you to God. come on. I can tell the difference. I will give you an example. I have this one problem that I have that I used to feel so guilty about I would think that I wasn't a good Christian because I could get passed it. (The first lie that the devil wanted me to believe was that God couldn't help me with the problem.) Now this thing has plagued me most of my life and it wasn't until about a few months ago when I was reading the Bible that I realized I don't need to feel guilty about that. What I am doing isn't right but if I truly ask for forgiveness God won't be worried about it anymore. It was the devil telling me that I wasn't good enough. So that is the difference between God and the devil.
The devil wants you to stay in the same place you are and fill your life with meaningless stuff and believe that existence is the best the your could ever have.
There are still pluralistic society's and religions. Hinduism, Some American Indians, Some African tribes, the Celtic religion. The idea of multiple gods hasn't gone anywhere.
I hope there are no atheist of agnostics that have some kind of addiction whether it be drug, working, eating etc, because that wouldn't be dealing with your problems directly. I was watching TV the other day and I saw Hue Hefner on the television. Now I don't know what religion he is but his mother wasn't that affectionate when he was going up so it is no wonder he has about seven girlfriends, and a failed marriage. He hasn't dealt with the rejection of his mother so that he can have a healthy relationship with women. What he is is a pimp and those women with him are hurting too.
Do you love your life? I hope that you don't hide behind your intellect. That wouldn't be dealing with the problem head on. Being smart does not solve life's problems. Following God changes life from being something to deal with to something that you do. I don't have to fight the situation that happen to me. All I have to do is pray and act on God's word.
You said that I don't think for myself and I must disagree because everyday I have a choice to follow the God's will or do it my way. No one else can make that choice for me.
Just to let you know God came to me when I was younger that four and I had no reason to make up a God. My parents weren't going to church so it wasn't like I was in that kind of environment.
I will give you example of what happen just today. OK I have an on call for work today. Which mean that I may have work I just have to call in to see if I go. Well God told me to that I wasn't going to go into work today. Guess what. I am not at work.
I will give you another example. My mother likes to be in control. So she was having a problem with retiring because she didn't want to be dependent on my father. I told her she was being silly. Then Friday my father told me that he may loose it. (I am not worried about his job. Guess why? ) So when she got the news she wasn't too happy because just a few days before she had told the principle that she was retiring. I was thinking about my parents situation and I was praying and God told me that my mother didn't need to worry about taking care of herself or my father taking care of her because God would do it. So I called her Saturday and told her what God told me. She told me that what I had just said was confirmation of what God had told her. So God is talking the question is who is listening?
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bare
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 47
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Post by bare on Apr 12, 2006 9:21:57 GMT -5
I will give you example of what happen just today. OK I have an on call for work today. Which mean that I may have work I just have to call in to see if I go. Well God told me to that I wasn't going to go into work today. Guess what. I am not at work. you were doing so good, making decent arguments, puting up some good counter points, getting some nice jabs in, pleading your case realtively well, ....then you pulled this whooper out, like the sun coming out from behind the clouds casting warm rays of delusion upon the world. I'm saying this not as someone who is at odds with you here but from someone who even when i was a "christian" would tell you this, that YOU NEED HELP[glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300][/shadow]
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bare
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 47
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Post by bare on Apr 12, 2006 9:42:19 GMT -5
oh yeah Nietzsche kicks ass! and he is definitely in love with himself but his hammer striking the idols is still resonating today, maybe even louder than ever before
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Post by vertigo on Apr 13, 2006 3:15:59 GMT -5
Guerillasaint might qualify as being insane.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 13, 2006 12:06:18 GMT -5
I guess that would be a great way to discredit what I believe, but what about all those other who believe and have a relationship with God?
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Post by vertigo on Apr 13, 2006 16:04:06 GMT -5
They are all deluded.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Apr 15, 2006 15:17:19 GMT -5
Bare that is proof that you never had a relationship with God. (you were just posing as a Christian) Do you know what it means to believe in god? Do you understand what it truly means to be a Christian no just your opinion. You are supposed to talk to God. You are supposed to put your faith in him. You are supposed to allow him to use you. The true belief in God isn't just theory it must be acted out. You have to step out on faith. When you do this you will be able to distinguish the difference between God and religion.
Bare, when you were a Christian did you just believe because someone told you to? Did you understand what it meant to confess your sins? Did you confess your sins and ask the holy spirit to come into you? Did you really mean it or were you just going through the motions? Did you try to seek God with everything you did? Did you pray first and then read the Bible? Did you have quiet time with just you and God? Why did you choose to be a Christian? Did you truly believe there ever was a man named Jesus and that he was the Messiah. Did anyone teach you about what all of these things are for?
Vertigo Why because you can't see him or hear him. If you have your eyes closed and allow the noise of the world drown out his call to you then you will never hear or see him.
What gives you the authority to choose who is delusional and who isn't. What if you are the delusional one?
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bare
Maverick's Chew Toy
Posts: 47
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Post by bare on Apr 17, 2006 2:27:22 GMT -5
GS (im going to call you that from now on guerrillasaint, less typing) you assume to much about me, your "god" should be able to keep you a little more informed. especially if he's filling you in on weather your working or not. i followed what i was taught growing up, did my darnedest to be "good". then did some living for myself for awhile before going back, seemed right and the inspired way to go at the time. then i kept reading and informing myself as to the goings on around me. expanding my limited knowledge, as to other religions, other mythologys, the development of belief systems and how all this religion really boils down to is the need of a security blanket. i then truly had an moment of "divine inspiration" when the world around me came crashing down in beautiful explosion of insight when i finally let go of "god" that i held onto for so long even when i thought i had disposed of "god" , the concept was still dancing around the back of my head. then that one day in a nirvana-esk way it all dropped out, and that was the greatest, most moving unexplainable day of my life! i touched god that day. i stuck my finger in his eye, the result was that it was my own eye. and i truly saw for the first time the lies we have been fed, and continue to feed on in this world.
and yes, even when i was whole heartedly (as hard as it may be to believe) was a christian i would have still said your a flaming nut job!
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