Jesus why then?

[Dragon*of*Heaven]

According to the bible Jeusus was born at a time of great need, yet I cant help but wonder at this. The world has certainly not gotten better since his passing. If any thing the world has gotten worse. In other words if your God exists why not send a Messiah now? I think if your god exists his timeing is crappy.

[vertigo]

Dragon, would you say you can know the will of God?

[guerrillasaint]

Where in the Bible did it say that the world situation was going to get better after Jesus left? I think it is supposed to get worst.

He came when he wanted to come. No earlier and no later

[Dragon*of*Heaven]

alright let me rephrase back in the times of Judea he only reached a small amount of people with his lessons. ( don't try to tell me that these things today are his lesson because they have been chewed up and spit out so many times its ridiculous.) Now adays he could come and show him self to the world. They did not have mass communication back then. So why?

Vertigo: truly not because he doesn't exist but if he did he is a freaking moron.

Guerrillasaint: How noble of your God to come not when he is needed but when he feels like it. I always thought that Jesus was supposed to be a Savior that implies things getting better not turning from bad to worse. Oh and before I forget if the coming of Jesus is supposed to make the world worse your God is really twisted and sick.

[guerrillasaint]

Just because God came in human form back then doesn't mean that he stopped showing up. Since he is a God that would mean that he can show up in what ever way he wants to.

Also, just because he comes when he wants to doesn't mean the he doesn't come when he is needed. And like I said before it doesn't mean that he stopped showing up.

things have gotten better for those who have accepted Jesus as their savior.

[Dragon*of*Heaven]

Ahh but the amount of them are actualy very limited. How nice for the high and mighty. Frankly if your god came on earth I dont think so many people would be giveing up on the faith.

[guerrillasaint]

It is the individual's decision whether they want to give up on faith. I would say it has more to do with the person than it has to do with God.

How do you know the amount of times God has showed up on this earth?

Peoples lives are being changed every day. Just because you feel like there is no evidence doesn't mean that here isn't.

[The Reservoir Dog]

guerrillasaint said:

Peoples lives are being changed every day. Just because you feel like there is no evidence doesn't mean that here isn't.

Then how come no one has ever been able to present any evidence? I believe what I can see and experience.

[guerrillasaint]

The persons life is the evidence. We are different

[The Reservoir Dog]

That is genetics and psychology nothing else; that has been proven.

[guerrillasaint]

Sorry wasn't clear.

I am talking about everyday life. Not being alive. Someone who believes lives their life differently they change.

[solidsquid]

Differently? Explain.

[guerrillasaint]

I have talked to a few people who are believers. They pretty much say the same thing I was going to say.

We all have Joy which isn't the same thing a happiness. We are at peace. Even when bad things happen we know it will be alright. Even if the situation doesn't happen the way we would like it to be it usually ends in a way that is better for us. There is no need to worry about things just pray. Everything is Cool in my life even though I don't have a job and I know that my loans are about to come up. It is not like I don't pay attention to what needs to be done I just know that whatever happens everything will be OK.

[solidsquid]

There is a name for that - it is called having a secondary external locus of control. It is an anxiety reducing cognitive construct. One of the major anxiety producers, active rumination, is not as salient in this perceptual functioning. This is not an item only relegated to those who are adherents of Christianity. Other external loci of control are chance, luck, aliens, energies, nature. However, in this context it centers around a deity. Successes in this LOC will be attributed to the hand of the deity while failures do vary - some blame themselves shifting the LOC to internal, some blame Satan or other perceived "evil" characters, some still perceive it as god but him "working in mysterious ways".

All this LOC and attributional styles works on the preservation of our psychological health. For instance (in another area) mildly depressed people have a more accurate assessment of reality than do people who do not suffer from depression - their attributional styles differ. I digress from this....as I may start rambling.

I suppose my point is that this perceptual style is not anything supernatural or a byproduct of the work of a deity - you'd be hard pressed to elucidate the claim that it is. It must be said that people often make correlations that don't exist in actuality and their attribution of causation as it applies to this context is often wrong.

It should be pointed out that you can find such behavior in just about any social group - it is not the sole possession of those adhering to your belief system.

Also, you refered to "joy" and it not being the same as "happiness". The defintion as put forth by consensus is that joy is, in fact, a type of happiness - an exuberant one but a type of happiness nonetheless.

For example - "joy" as a noun - which would be the way in which you utilized it:

1.
1. Intense and especially ecstatic or exultant happiness.
2. The expression or manifestation of such feeling.
2. A source or an object of pleasure or satisfaction: their only child, their pride and joy.

Source - dictionary.reference.com/search?q=joy

So, if this is not the definition of joy to which you subscribe, I'd ask you to operationalize that term and provide the definition of what you mean by "joy" as a separate item from happiness.

[guerrillasaint]

This theory makes a lot of sense I could say that it is common sense put into a theory.

Hey it is even in the Bible-Provers 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it. Meaning if you want his reenforcement value to become the will of God then teach him God's ways.

I am the master of my own actions and I am responsible for what I do.(That would be internal locus of control) I have a choice in weather I want God to control my life. When I give him control, my desired outcome becomes what he wants. Therefore, whatever happen is for the betterment of the kingdom of God.

You are right about the definition of Joy and I use my own definition which I stated before. But for the sake of this conversation I will use the first one definition because Joy is much more than just happiness to me.

It must be said that people often make correlations that don't exist in actuality and their attribution of causation as it applies to this context is often wrong.

You could also say that people down play what actually exists and the are also wrong.