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Post by Yaw on Feb 2, 2004 16:44:48 GMT -5
Kalena is right about my reason for pressuring muddog. I found his defense strange, because it didn't address the reasons that those on his bandwagon found him suspicious, nor did it even make the pretense of attempting to. I did not find muddog suspicious before, but his lack-of-defense has me willing to pressure him for a real one. (And we'd better hear from muddog tonight because of the approaching deadline. Especially if he's town, because if he is we need the time to find a real scum to lynch.)
Hilly
While I noticed that, it wasn't what I found interesting. I found the lack of a reason for bandwagonning pieisgood in the first place interesting. Arutha put the second vote on without saying much about it, and this was before the doc-related post that was the primary reason I voted for pieisgood. I'll admit to finding it odd, but the aforementioned doctor post really got my attention.
Also, I had AuntieSocial's interpretation of the number of scum. That is, there is a Catholic side of more than one person, one of whom is the Inquisitor. I had assumed two scum (and many of us did as well), but I do realize that was an assumption that may be false. At any rate, I don't think the wording lends itself to one interpretation over the other with respect to numbers. Lynching correctly today is important whether there are 2 or 3 Catholics...but the latter would make our situation more dire.
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Post by AuntieSocial on Feb 2, 2004 18:38:04 GMT -5
I'm still looking at pieisgood ... here's why...
Remember back on day 1? Well, at the beginning, we had some "random" votes and FOS's. Yaw and pieisgood cast the first random votes as follows:
Yaw: ck (random vote) pieisgood: muddog (random vote)
They both changed their random votes mid-day (to try and draw the absentees in):
Yaw: jacopo (random) pieisgood: kaeis (random)
The first non-random vote was by ck, for pieisgood, which was followed closely by Arutha (and that is still suspicious to me, by the way)
At the point when the bandwagon was started against ck, pieisgood cast the first stone. He was also the one who pointed out that ck and Arutha were voting (and riding a bandwagon) together. But no one else joined on the wagon with ck & Arutha. MANY people joined pieisgood on his wagon though ... the wagon that was gunning for the blood-spilling of an innocent citizen.
No one but the scum would know that ck is innocent ... we bought into pieisgood's story though. In post #97, when muddog removed his vote from ck, it appears that pieisgood is trying to pressure him into reapplying his vote. If you recall, we were short some players and were deciding whether to continue in their absence. Removing the vote was a reasonable precaution against one of the absentees being scum & showing up and casting the damning stone ... but pieisgood didn't want muddog to remove his vote.
There is then the business of trying to out our good doctor. Why would a citizen want to bring our doctor to the scum's attention? There is also what I perceive as insight into the number of scum roaming our streets. Yes, it is plausible that he read the plural of catholic to mean there were two catholics plus an inquisitor ... or ... is he slipping up and possibly giving away information he fellows in scumdom wouldn't want him to pass on?
Now, we have Day 2 ...
We start the day with a lot of FOSing, which I imagine is normal. The first person to be voted for is muddog, by Griffey. Griffey’s reason? Pieisgood has some good points that make muddog look scummy.
Pieisgood adds his vote to muddog and we have the start of a bandwagon again … spear-headed by pieisgood …
I agree that muddog’s defense isn’t much of a defense at all, but I can’t over look the instigation behind all of this …
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Kalena
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 115
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Post by Kalena on Feb 2, 2004 19:02:29 GMT -5
Yes, I noticed all of that as well after I started to reread the thread and look at the voting patterns. That's why I'm very suspicious of Pie. I think, even if Muddog gives an unconvincing defense, I would still vote for Pie. So...
Vote: Pieisgood
I think I shall leave it here. I really think Pie is scum.
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Post by Griffey on Feb 2, 2004 19:36:43 GMT -5
Hi all...[ot] I freakin' hate mondays...[/ot]
I no longer think that muddog and pieisgood are working together. Some of my logic is based on assumption.
Let's look back: we know who two people's roles are, Auntie and ck. Their voting intentions we can confirm are solely town-motivated. While ck is dead, reading back he had suspicion about pieisgood which was not scum related (he was only voting for pie because he thought he was scum). Now we have Auntie, who we know is town, suspecting pieisgood, also.
So we have pieisgood looking scummy. As for muddog, I admit that he still looks suspicious to me. However, I note that as soon as I cast my vote, pieisgood must have felt safe (like he was going to avoid the "starting a bandwagon" accusations if things went wrong) and immediately cast his vote. If both were scum, I don't think pieisgood would be so eager to jump on (and stay on) once he found that someone was taking his accusations of muddog to heart. I think that the mafia would think twice if they threw an accusation or two at a teammate for self-preservation, and had someone act on those suspicions and vote. But pieisgood remained just as zealous as ever about getting muddog lynched.
I realize a lot of my logic is founded on assumption, as I've said. But this is the general impression that I get. So basically we have: two innocent people suspecting pieisgood (among other people, yes) and pieisgood's behavior regarding muddog.
My feeling is they're both suspicious, but I think pieisgood is moreso, and my general feeling is that if one of them is scum, the other isn't...but that's just my instinct. I could quite possibly be wrong entirely. Anyhow, no matter their connection, I think pieisgood is the best scum candidate at the moment. And I hate to be fatalistic, but with the deadline looming, it's really a move-it-or-lose-it situation. If we don't get a lynch, we miss out on a chance to kill scum or at the very least narrow our choices.
vote: pieisgood
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Post by AuntieSocial on Feb 2, 2004 19:46:56 GMT -5
I no longer think that muddog and pieisgood are working together. Some of my logic is based on assumption. ...general feeling is that if one of them is scum, the other isn't...but that's just my instinct. I agree, it is very unlikely that they are working together. I, too, may be wrong, but I really do think that pieisgood has lead the lynch against ck ... and is currently creating a following against muddog.
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Post by pieisgood on Feb 2, 2004 20:30:13 GMT -5
...the shut-up strategy strikes again ... You are basing your evidence on the fact that all citizens are right. Innocence does not grant omnipotence, as Yaw said earlier. Auntie-- your first statement about me being on the more abundant bandwagon is acceptable, and that is part of why I stated Arutha was unlikely to be scum, but other than that it proves nothing. Muddog, the person I suspect, was on the wagon too. I already explained the infamous "post #97". I was a little impatient about the game, and all pressure being removed from ck to provide a defense would cause him to use the muddog strategy- hide. THe doctor paragraph- Why would a citizen want to out our good doctor? Well, why would a scum want to out our good doctor? Also, about scum numbers- I really can't see why this is considered suspicious. I interpreted it the way I told you, I used that info to help the town. THis new bandwagon, it's my suspicion. I apologize for throwing my views out to the town instead of hiding. GRIFFEY: No, me and muddog are most certainly not together, and if I get lynched and come up innocent and the town has enough to keep going, please lynch muddog. Griffey, I'd hardly say that I was bandwagoning with YOU on that. You jumped on my claims. FOS you for this. para. 2: Yes, you have proved that me and muddog are not together. I have been saying this all along. You can't say I'm more suspicious than a lurker! Scumbody- I mean, Somebody who's only hurt the town! He is a lurker, and you can't say I'm more suspicious than him when I didn't provide a defense. -Pie
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Post by pieisgood on Feb 2, 2004 20:30:45 GMT -5
EDIT: last sentence, I meant to say when HE didn't provide a defense.
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Post by nonny on Feb 2, 2004 20:31:23 GMT -5
muddog: (3) hilly,pieisgood, Yaw pieisgood: (3) Auntiesocial, kalena, Griffey Not voting: (2) muddog, Arutha
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Post by Griffey on Feb 2, 2004 21:06:14 GMT -5
pieisgood: I already mentioned several times in my last point that much of my logic WAS based on assumptions. I'm perfectly aware that neither ck nor Auntie are infalliable. However it's safe to say that they are NOT voting in order to mislead us or serve their own scummy ends. Therefore we can use their logic to help us without fear that they were just using us.
I said I didn't think you were together because originally, I did. I'm merely demonstrating my change in opinion from thinking you definately were together to thinking you definately aren't.
As for why a scum would want to off our doc, I think that ought to explain itself. The doctor is a force working against their evil regime (as is demonstrated by his/her good work last night) and thus they would probably want to kill him/her off.
And I already found you quite suspicious before I voted. I am not basing my vote on this theory alone.
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Post by pieisgood on Feb 2, 2004 21:43:55 GMT -5
I'm not trying to off our doc! I don't know where you're getting that. If I were scum and I did want to off our doc, I wouldn't announce it to the world. If I were citizen, I wouldn't want to present our doc to the world, or, more namely, the scum. So you can conclude I'm not citizen or scum, so that logic doesn't work.
-pie
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Post by AuntieSocial on Feb 2, 2004 22:05:20 GMT -5
Or, perhaps the scum was thinking they were hitting the doctor last night, but guessed wrong and are now trying to draw the doctor out by making guess on who s/he might be ... hoping that the doc will make some mistake and definately confirm his/her identity...
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muddog
Maverick's Chew Toy
The blue things are books titles Plato, and the kid has a jar of Play-Doh
Posts: 29
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Post by muddog on Feb 2, 2004 23:36:56 GMT -5
For the much awaited post and defence by me: When I posted last, Im sorry that it seemed to be passing the buck and fading back, but Im buisy in my life right now, and you all are posting a lot. I dont get a chance to post, and so with all of the talk going around so fast, it looks like i'm trying to fade away, but im not. Also, I am new at this thread type of game. I don't know how to set up a defence, but I'm starting to feel like im in the position ck was in: Say im innocent, possibly suggest someone else, and have everyone jump down my throat saying it souds scummy trying to shift the blame. Other option, dont post much if at all, and have people attacking me saying it is scummy by trying to slink around. This leaves me SOL. If you do decide to lynch me, you will me making the same mistake you made with CK, putting a townie into an undefendable position, and waste time until people get their act together and lynch. CK was a mistake, and an unfortunate one. If you do not want to make the same mistake again, dont lynch me. This is the longest post I have ever writin, and am going to write another one in another couple of minutes, because i tend to wander with my thoughts when writing. BTW, Maddog does sound cooler than Muddog, mabey I will change my name to it after the game is done. Thanks Kalena.
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Post by Yaw on Feb 2, 2004 23:43:33 GMT -5
Oy. All we want is you to address the issues that caused you to be voted for. That's it. If you really are innocent, this shouldn't be too much of a problem. It isn't a Catch 22...unless you're scummy.
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muddog
Maverick's Chew Toy
The blue things are books titles Plato, and the kid has a jar of Play-Doh
Posts: 29
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Post by muddog on Feb 2, 2004 23:52:58 GMT -5
Continuing my first post and trying not to ramble:
As I said earlier, there are two strategies that a pinned down person can use, both of which can and probably will be attacked, but I need to say something. I am starting to think that pie might be scum.(strategy one) But I have reasons, not just a person to pass the buck to. Pie has intiated all bandwagons in this game. Perhaps he is simpily an active townie, but mabey he is more. I am going to try and stick with the good/bad catigories, because this grand inquisitor stuff is really confusing me. I have no big plans of "if so and so is scum, then this person will be too, but if not, then these too people will... and .... so and so... Et cetera" Me: "Pie looks scummy because he initiated all the bandwagons." Also, trying to tie me in with CK's death, remember that I was not voting for him when he was lynched. If I remember correctly, pie was.
But as we are all wraped up in pie and myself, we have forgoten a newcomer. Kalena has done nothing but sit and smile all game, and we dont have anything to go on. This sitting and smiling is acceptable so far, because she just replaced someone, but before we lynch anyone, we should make her talk. Mud
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muddog
Maverick's Chew Toy
The blue things are books titles Plato, and the kid has a jar of Play-Doh
Posts: 29
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Post by muddog on Feb 3, 2004 0:01:15 GMT -5
I am mostly a skim reader, and am forgetfull. Can anyone please remind me the reasons I was voted for in the first place, and I will adress them once and for all. That seems to be what you are wanting.
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