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Post by vertigo on Jan 22, 2006 15:56:26 GMT -5
I'll explain a little. "There is no credibility or reason in faith." Theists are still intelligent people, you know. They don't subscribe to reason but that doesn't mean they don't use their intellect. They use it to try and subvert you. They use reason for their own purposes.
"The fact that they come to preach is more a testament to their arrogance and tenacity than any deeper, intellectually stimulating purpose." Why do you call it arrogance? They are doing it out of guilt. If they show tenacity, it's to the degree that people like me denounce them. They wouldn't need to be tenacious if everyone tried 'not to be at their level', etc.
"I think the larger issue here is that you attach importance to the judgments of others as a qualifier for your own happiness. Sorry, but happiness comes from within, not without." And what does this have to do with me? Should I live in a world of fantasy? People are a part of reality, bud. I am not a relativist.
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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Post by GodsAreUs on Jan 22, 2006 16:02:58 GMT -5
Everything you said except for the last sentence is rubbish. The last sentence is irrelevant because you are merely stating the obvious. If you like, you can argue that what you said means something to you... Thankfully, I am indifferent to your thoughts as well. My intent, (meaning to you notwithstanding), was simply, how did you say it? to "spread an understanding of atheism and the atheist through open, intellectual conversation." By rendering benign the thoughts of all (including myself), the truth reveals itself. Call it what you like. You need to remember that intelligence and emotions are mutually exclusive. Or at least they should be. One’s passion is another’s obsession. Do my words mean anything? Who gives a shit? I enjoyed writing them. If someone else takes issue or lauds them, I will be no better or worse off. Why have it any other way?
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 26, 2006 18:48:27 GMT -5
I first want to talk to SimpleObservation. That statement was uncalled for. As a Christian you should know that this is an atheist website. They made this website so that they can discuss there beliefs and be in a place where they are comfortable. If they don't believe in what we do we don't have the right or authority to condemn them. And if you are trying to get someone to pay attention to you you don't disrespect them.
To Vertigo as a believer we are supposed to be fishers of men so coming on this website would be practicing our beliefs. I can't say that I haven't learned from what has been written on this website. Your friends are right you shouldn't put your worth in the fact that you have made us angry. That just means that you define yourself by what we say and I know you don't want that.
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Post by vertigo on Jan 26, 2006 20:57:53 GMT -5
Thank you, I hope all the atheists here see this. This is proof it is worth shit. All the benevolence in the world won't make a damn difference.
At least I have worth, my worth isn't contingent on God's love. What a depraved thing to believe.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 27, 2006 14:56:34 GMT -5
I know who I am and I don't have to define myself on what others think of me. I don't consider that deprave. My love for my God may be strange to you, but what you think of my values doesn't matter. That is what my God has given me.
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Post by Dragon*of*Heaven on Jan 27, 2006 19:44:08 GMT -5
To Vertego: Were I to be in ignorance of your past disscussions and read your posts on this particular discussion I would be not only astonished but sickened to call my self an atheist. Do you not see that you are doing the same thing as the theists you detest so much. You my good man are preaching to have self worth. That is the very thing that you have been angry with them for doing. You say they dont have their eyes or ears open, yet neither do you. All you have ever done on this form is bash any theist that comes onto it. Also frankly as you put it well we are on this site to "spread an understanding of atheism and the atheist through open, intellectual conversation." Yet you are not even able to argue with GodsAreUs as an open minded man.
To GodsAreus: I dont understand why you dont think your words mean something. Even though I am very sure Vertego would most assuradly disagree it is always important to have civilized argument with theists and it is always important to convey ones thoughts.
Lastly to Guerrillasaint: I would like to appluad you, you openly said that even though you did not agree with us in hole you did learn some things. I find this very honorable as you disagree with us but still have your eyes open. (see vertigo someone listens to what we say).
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Post by vertigo on Jan 27, 2006 20:10:52 GMT -5
So I sicken you? Well, I'm changing my tune. I now think no-one should tell other people what to do, except in a contractual agreement. I will give no more advice, no more predictions. I will lead by example. My opinion is changing about things so I need to sort things out in my mind.
As far as I can see, Guerillasaint said he didn't learn anything. What is there for him to learn?
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 29, 2006 2:51:28 GMT -5
I am a woman and I have learned a lot from discussing issues on this website.
I can understand some of the reasons you don't believe in a God. I have received a deeper understanding of my own beliefs. You all have challenged me.
I agree with Dragon*of*Heaven about you doing the same thing SimpleObesevation was doing.
I will say the same thing I said to him. You have to give respect if you want someone to pay attention to your message
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Post by vertigo on Jan 29, 2006 7:12:48 GMT -5
Guerrillasaint, why would you say you believe?
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 30, 2006 11:59:55 GMT -5
Are you asking me why I believe in my God? (if you are not I am sorry that I misunderstood)
When I was a little girl God came to me and told me who he was and at that point I accepted. Still, I was a teenager when I begin to truly understand who God really was and since then I have been growing in faith. All my life God has been showing himself to me. I even talk to God and he answers back in many different ways. That is why I believe.
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Post by vertigo on Jan 30, 2006 18:06:32 GMT -5
If Gold told you who he was and he reveals himself to you, how have we challenged you at all? Was your faith ever really challenged?
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 31, 2006 2:12:20 GMT -5
As a Christian we all grow in faith and I see it like this. God is always talking but we may not always be listening. Before I started to post things on this site I would say that I talked more at God than I listen to him. Then as I continued to discuss issues on this site I had to be quiet and listen to what God wanted me to say.
Some of the arguments on this website are really good but I totally disagreed with them so I had to take my time and meditate over why I disagreed.
From an early age God has wanted me to share my faith but I have resisted for a very long time. So this has given me the chance "step out on faith". As well as over come my fear of making people upset so that I can discuss my faith with people face to face. I used to get butterflies when I first started to discuss my faith on this site. Now I am real cool.
As I continued to post on this website some gray areas would come up and I would have to rely on God to help me work through them.
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GodsAreUs
Seasoned Citizen
If you fail to question anything, you may be had by everything.
Posts: 215
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Post by GodsAreUs on Jan 31, 2006 16:38:01 GMT -5
To GodsAreus: I dont understand why you dont think your words mean something. Even though I am very sure Vertego would most assuradly disagree it is always important to have civilized argument with theists and it is always important to convey ones thoughts. I guess my point was my words do mean something to me, but that's my issue. How anyone else may take them is their problem. I don't mean that to be a jerk. I just get fed up with emotional outbursts over words. In the end, we (as in everybody) are responsible for our own perception of other's words. It is important to have rational discourse on any manner of personal interests. But since I've gotten involved with debating theists (or more specifically, Christians), I realize I have very little to learn from them. It's "do what the bible says." There's no point. There's no debate to be won because there's no reason in faith. If there was, they'd call it something else (like 'reason,' maybe, ha ha).
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Post by guerrillasaint on Feb 1, 2006 23:51:57 GMT -5
you are right faith does not rely on reason.
Still some Christians do use logic and reason
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Post by vertigo on Feb 2, 2006 7:22:05 GMT -5
They use logic and reason to serve their faith, that's even worse.
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