|
Post by necroshine on May 28, 2006 17:03:22 GMT -5
Lets say god knows what is going to happen and you still have free will. Here is how. Everything is going to happen. So many realities exist because god can play out every out come. What determines your punishment is the path you choose to take through the millions on millions of outcomes. So what path will you choose to go down? the other out comes don’t have to happen if you don’t want it to. Its up to you is you go to hell or not. God lets everything happen so anything can happen. Even a god that knows everything.
|
|
twobirds
Seasoned Citizen
Religion is a con.
Posts: 111
|
Post by twobirds on May 31, 2006 16:52:06 GMT -5
What other realites would you be talking about. To me the only reality that is real is the one I live everyday?
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jun 1, 2006 6:09:17 GMT -5
The one you know is the only one there is. but any reality can happen just depends on your choice in life. God, being as he is outside our existence he can see all paths. you can only see the one you live through. So god can see everything and know all outcomes but you only see the one you live in.
|
|
Amy
Broken-in Plebe
Do not follow the blind - in other words, theists
Posts: 87
|
Post by Amy on Jun 2, 2006 13:54:58 GMT -5
Lets say god knows what is going to happen and you still have free will. Here is how. Everything is going to happen. So many realities exist because god can play out every out come. What determines your punishment is the path you choose to take through the millions on millions of outcomes. So what path will you choose to go down? the other out comes don’t have to happen if you don’t want it to. Its up to you is you go to hell or not. God lets everything happen so anything can happen. Even a god that knows everything. This whole entire thing hurts my head. However, if any of you have taken a philosophy class, you would know that the definition of reality is misunderstood by many - including me at one point. One day, my philosophy professor was discussing a subject involving reality. I remember asking who's reality he was referring to. He said, "It is not one's own personal reality; There is only one reality. However, I am speaking of different perceptions of the one reality."
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jun 2, 2006 19:48:00 GMT -5
What reality are you talking about? The only real reality is gods reality. The only thing that is real is what god wants to be or allows to be real, Past that nothing happens. If its real then god wants it to be real. God knows all and reality will follow what god wants to happen. Sure god allows us to have control over some details but the over all universe will end the way god wants it to end and when he wants it to end. Because god allows us to choose the details it seems like we are in control. Much like an ant farm where the ants go around doing what they want but in the end we have total control over the lives of the ants. The life of the ant colony will stop when we loose interest in it. God is watching us and wants us to do the correct thing. But it is up to us to do it.
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jun 7, 2006 5:59:15 GMT -5
Someone needs to argue with me. I know the boards are a little slow so I thought I would jump ship for a minute and argue for the Christians for once. But I need someone to argue with. Come on. Someone yell at me here.
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Jun 8, 2006 17:40:30 GMT -5
I don't like that idea, I understand it but I don't like the idea of being watched and my ideas being preordained(sp?). Sure it can make sense but that would for this small discussion that every choice you make you can either do the pro or the con and there is no other option. Example: You jump off of a building, you can either not jump in the first place, jump and die. But why can't you defy gravity?
Ahha god is a controling bastard(he don't have father *snicker*) if god is out there that means he created gravity....why? Why not let us fly maybe because he thinks poeple will soar towards the heavens and it would be chaos, or maybe he thinks it would take away from angels specialness, or maybe he just wanted us to stay put till he had his entertainment.
Because I think if there was some holy diety that we would simply be allowed to carry on with our lives whether we make good choices or bad so that the big guy uipstairs has something to entertian himself with.....very pessimistic view I know. But why creat a abitlty to do bad when you don't want poeple to? Why give them will power...why let them not act how you won't? Because it would be easy for him to have us all follow a path and for none of us to doubt him but it's all for entertainment I bet. And then if we were all good he would be out of a job of make poeple fearful and sentenceing them in the after life.
Now I may have strayed a little off topic but you get my drift....I didn't agree nor disagree with you but i would love to countinue this conversation with you.
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jun 8, 2006 19:54:20 GMT -5
I did not say your actions are preordained. I said all possibilities can happen as god sees them. You choose which path you go down. While god retains the ability to see everything that can happen.
I don’t follow. (really I don’t know what you are talking about) in our world gravity is a real thing that we can not over come under our own power. With or without a god you will still have to obey this rule. Now if god didn’t want gravity then I guess there would not be any. I don’t see any flies with a womans head screaming with a stinger that will hurt you without end. God don’t want them here. Yet!
How about this. God is all powerful so it would go without saying that with this power if god wanted to entertain himself couldn’t he just create 10,000 different earths just like us but all act different due to different conditions he gives them. Talk about entertainment! If you had the power of a god and you do to a point on earth. You can create or destroy at will. What do you do with your power? If you don’t always do good then why do you hold god up to doing what you think is correct? Maybe our morality is just selfish by nature. Isn’t being selfish wrong to begin with? Now no one knows what is going to happen when we die. But god has told me I’m going to heaven. J
Me too.
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Jun 8, 2006 20:20:00 GMT -5
I gnore the exmple after typing it i relized it sounded better in my head and didn't want to delete it.
Okay so not Preordained just there so basically you are saying we are world A, and when we make one decision, another world could spawn with the other decision? Then what do you take of fate? Real Life Example: My friend, kesli, and I had a talk about her like a mutual firend, nate, then later the same nigth nate talked to me about giving up on kliking her because she had a boyfriend. I stepped outside kesli's trust in me and my morals and told him that she liked him. They are now engaged. So are you say there could be another reality where nate hate kesli because I didn't tell him?
That seems plausible but messy, so is more like god can see what could've happened with out the reality forming? But one problem it is sadi the God is infinate and can see all future past and present so doesn't that mean that he does know what is gonna happen whether or not we do? What if there is no free will and it's just an illusion and we are acutlly programmed like a computer to do certain scenerios at certain times. That would explain poeple have deja vu because it's not they have done it before it's that they know they will do it subconsioucly. (wow my first conspricy theory)
True god could create many different worlds, but that is like trying to watch 5 channels on the tellevision you don't get the whole story and always miss the best part. But also how do we know that is not the case either? It could be possible consdiering we have only discovered like 15% of our universe.
I think we shouldn't really care about where we go just how we get there.
You should read "God: The ultimate Autobiography" there is a descriptive thread in the book review area...I think you would enjoy it
|
|
Amy
Broken-in Plebe
Do not follow the blind - in other words, theists
Posts: 87
|
Post by Amy on Jun 9, 2006 13:52:21 GMT -5
What reality are you talking about? The only real reality is gods reality. The only thing that is real is what god wants to be or allows to be real, Past that nothing happens. If its real then god wants it to be real. God knows all and reality will follow what god wants to happen. Sure god allows us to have control over some details but the over all universe will end the way god wants it to end and when he wants it to end. Because god allows us to choose the details it seems like we are in control. Much like an ant farm where the ants go around doing what they want but in the end we have total control over the lives of the ants. The life of the ant colony will stop when we loose interest in it. God is watching us and wants us to do the correct thing. But it is up to us to do it. Wow. Try again. Your whole entire argument is completely and utterly skewed. It's like you were using circular reasoning. We are trying to decide if reality has a god in it - not that a god created reality...
|
|
Amy
Broken-in Plebe
Do not follow the blind - in other words, theists
Posts: 87
|
Post by Amy on Jun 9, 2006 13:57:56 GMT -5
I don't like that idea, I understand it but I don't like the idea of being watched and my ideas being preordained(sp?). Nobody likes to think that we don't actually have free will. But why creat a abitlty to do bad when you don't want poeple to? Why give them will power...why let them not act how you won't? Ahh... and here is when philosophy comes in. Non-believer: you have just alluded to what philosphers like to call "The Problem Of Evil". If Evil exists in the world, then there can't be a god. Well, you assume that a god is all-good.
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jun 9, 2006 18:49:07 GMT -5
ok nonny....
God is infinite and can see everything. But you still have freewill to choose what you want to do. It would be like rolling a ball down a board that had a bunch of nails but you deside how you want to bounce off the nail.
I would think déjà vu is just another reality that god made interacting with us.
Dude I have replay. I would think god could pause us and go watch a different reality. Think about it. He is all powerful!
If you don’t pay attention to where you are going, you will crash into something. And if I’m on a trip I want to know where I’m going and where I end up.
I read the first one. It’s the bible.
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jun 9, 2006 18:50:39 GMT -5
ok amy...
Yea I am. Isn’t it great. That is why I know god is real all my evidence points to him.
What? But if you are experiencing your reality and I have my own, plus we are contributing to each others reality then there is reality. And I know who made that. It had to be god only he has to power to create reality. Do you have that power? I don’t think so.
i have freewill. I choose to believe in god and you choose to not believe. Are you saying that you don’t have a choice in life.
What problem? The devil is evil. I don’t see a problem with evil.
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Jun 9, 2006 19:26:31 GMT -5
God is infinite and can see everything. But you still have freewill to choose what you want to do. It would be like rolling a ball down a board that had a bunch of nails but you deside how you want to bounce off the nail. I would think déjà vu is just another reality that god made interacting with us. But it he has already seen the future it is desecided...or is he naive and only seeing the future he wishes to see? could be plausible, but who likes to interupt a story, I like being naive and thinking there is one earth...there could be more life out there but only one earth Ah but if you know you are going to be some where in the end (dead) then you just concentrate on how you are getting there and not when you are getting there, because in the end if you have an ultimate destitination you are going to get there.....crashing would just make it sooner ^.~ Yeah but this one is a satire it doesn't make fun of god or religion just poeple's perspective on realigion, and it's only like 120 pages.
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Jun 9, 2006 19:30:24 GMT -5
Nobody likes to think that we don't actually have free will. But it seems that in what necroshine is saying we don't if there are already predecided courses of action then we have no option but to do one of them, the only option is which one. So it's free will but only to a point. Not all good, but if he rewards poeple for being good and puniches them for being bad then doesn't act good himself he is the oldest hypocrite of all time. (that's good btw the philsophy part because i'm taking ancient philosphy in a few months ^.~)
|
|