snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
|
Post by snafui on Jul 20, 2006 20:17:41 GMT -5
Oh ok, I wasn't talking in absolutes, sorry. Some parents do not have these feelings and that is very true. I do. I was mostly speaking on my behalf. Yes the argument was that God should have it as well via Christian beliefs and the Bible teachings. But from the story of the Garden of Eden, God was not displaying it was the whole point. The point was that God used a extremely severe punishment on Adam and Eve that was way out of line for their mental capacities and clearly not a benevolent act.
Not necessarily. If the child needs that as a form of discipline then it must be done. It would not negate the feeling. I still love my son, but he did something reprehensible and I cannot forgive him for what he has done (and we won't get into that here), but I still love him and worry about his well being. I cannot stop that feeling.
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jul 21, 2006 6:15:10 GMT -5
What gets me with the adam and eve story is that a lot of preachers and priests will say that the story is just a metaphor and you should not take it as truth. Well if that is the case then why would jesus have to come down and forgive us of original sin if it didn’t really happen? God is not a father figure. The best I can compare to is Hitler but he was kinder at least Hitler tried to kill them quickly. No god is anything but just and fair. Too bad most people close a blind eye to the evidence and contradictions in the bible.
|
|
snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
|
Post by snafui on Jul 22, 2006 16:50:46 GMT -5
I'm not going to go hunt this down right now because most of my books are packed up in the garage to move out of this house, but since you mention it, I do remember in a history class about United States religious developement that Biblical literalism was not always believed. It developed during the last great rivival around 1900 if I remember correctly.
|
|
The Reservoir Dog
Seasoned Citizen
I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with em' later.
Posts: 136
|
Post by The Reservoir Dog on Jul 23, 2006 18:02:00 GMT -5
Necro just out of curiosity what is your basis for comparing god to Hitler? I found this very interesting and humorous.
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jul 24, 2006 5:42:11 GMT -5
Necro just out of curiosity what is your basis for comparing god to Hitler? I found this very interesting and humorous. None really. That was just one of the more evil people I could think of. And then tried to think of a way that he would be kinder than god. Just making a joke but I’m sure I could come up with more ways that Hitler is kinder than god if I put my mind to it. Oh I know Ways Hitler is kinder than god. 1 he has never destroyed everyone on the planet. 2 he will never ask you to kill your own son. 3 he never killed his own son. ( he never had one but I’m sure he wouldn’t kill him.) 4 he never allowed his people to be enslaved for 1000 years. If you have anything to add to the list go right ahead.
|
|
|
Post by Unbeliever on Jul 28, 2006 19:14:45 GMT -5
Lets say god knows what is going to happen and you still have free will. Here is how. Everything is going to happen. So many realities exist because god can play out every out come. What determines your punishment is the path you choose to take through the millions on millions of outcomes. So what path will you choose to go down? the other out comes don’t have to happen if you don’t want it to. Its up to you is you go to hell or not. God lets everything happen so anything can happen. Even a god that knows everything. I think that all possibilities are realized, not just the one we happen to be able to perceive. The Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is becoming accepted by more and more physicists, and is now the leading contender as an explanation for the weird effects that occur on the quantum level, such as the outcome of the "double slit experiment". So in some other reality, I never ceased believing in God and Jesus, and will go to Heaven if it exists, but in this reality I came to disbelieve, and so I'll go to Hell, if it exists. But of course, I seriously don't think it does exist!
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jul 30, 2006 7:36:59 GMT -5
Unbeliever I have thought the same thing. But I wonder if you could ever “see” the other realities? And if so what does that mean for us? Wouldn’t it mean that we have no free will if everything is going to happen just the choice in the path we take? I never likes the idea of everything is going to happen. I’m a bum on the street and the president of the usa. That seems clunky to me. To me that would mean that there would have to be countless realities out there. From the smallest distinction between if I decide to drin coffee or tea in the morning. Then there would have to place out history and future all because I wanted to drink tea on Monday and another reality where I drink coffee on that day. Something about that I don’t like. Its just too messy. Any thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by nonny on Sept 16, 2006 18:23:36 GMT -5
Necro just out of curiosity what is your basis for comparing god to Hitler? I found this very interesting and humorous. None really. That was just one of the more evil people I could think of. And then tried to think of a way that he would be kinder than god. Just making a joke but I’m sure I could come up with more ways that Hitler is kinder than god if I put my mind to it. Oh I know Ways Hitler is kinder than god. 1 he has never destroyed everyone on the planet. 2 he will never ask you to kill your own son. 3 he never killed his own son. ( he never had one but I’m sure he wouldn’t kill him.) 4 he never allowed his people to be enslaved for 1000 years. If you have anything to add to the list go right ahead. But hitler did kill his dog and wife......some could say that is the same. And i think i made a comparision between god and hitler somewhere in this area.....yeah. Course god killed everyone and didn't single anyone out. Then again they both did it for "the good of society" or something similiar. EDIT: on point three he did ask the little boys in the "training" to rat out thier parents for illegal activity.
|
|
|
Post by prometheus on Oct 28, 2006 23:02:07 GMT -5
Lets s Everything is going to happen. So many realities exist because god can play out every out come. What determines your punishment is the path you choose to take through the millions on millions of outcomes. There are in fact an infinite number of paths that can be chosen at any instance in time and infinite time. I has to be one sick bastard that decides to punish the infinite number of wrong paths taken.
|
|
dan
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 116
|
Post by dan on Jan 9, 2007 18:22:34 GMT -5
Come on, guys, God created mankind, but Hitler was just another human on the same level as us. So it is not a fair comparison. As Creator, God has the automatic right to punish us when He sees fit, and He also has the best judgment as to when punishment is necessary.
Hitler was punishing innocent people, whereas God was punishing guilty people during the Flood; there's another big difference.
[Remark added later:] It is true that children who were innocent also died during the Flood. Unfortunately, children suffer indirect consequences for their parents' sins, and that is what was happening in this case.
Also, look at it this way: if God had failed to flood the world, those same children who died in the Flood would have grown up and become evil just like their parents. So in a sense, allowing the children to die was an act of mercy on them, and they probably went to heaven, whereas they wouldn't have otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jan 10, 2007 7:18:12 GMT -5
I know you think that. I know you think god is real. But what the hell did the children do to deserve to die in a flood? What did the animals of the world do to deserve to die in the flood? How about all the preachers and priests of the world back then, was they so evil in the worshiping of god that they also had to die? Do you really believe that no one on the earth at that time except for noha and his family was worshiping god? What about 6 people on the whole earth was the only ones that believed in god? Come on! All the children on the earth were so evil in the crib that they had to die. And the animals was so out of touch with god that they had to die also. Give me a break
|
|
|
Post by guerrillasaint on Jan 10, 2007 12:26:23 GMT -5
Were there religious leaders back then? Are children incapable of being evil? Don't they learn from their parents. More than just two types of the same animal went onto the boat.
|
|
|
Post by necroshine on Jan 10, 2007 18:34:52 GMT -5
Are you saying that nohas family was the only ones on earth that believed in your god?
Yea, children in the cradle are so evil. They sit there and crap on themselves. That should really be a punishable sin. When have you ever seen a baby kill someone in gods name? when have you ever seen a baby rape another underage child in the back of a church? Yea children are so much more worse than grownups.
Don’t care didn’t bring it up or said anything about it. Again don’t care.
What the hell could they have been doing that was so bad compared to today? we have known child molesters in the church and the church protects them. How much worse was they?
|
|
dan
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 116
|
Post by dan on Jan 10, 2007 22:12:40 GMT -5
I know you think that. I know you think god is real. But what the hell did the children do to deserve to die in a flood? That's a good question. There probably were many children who were not yet of age to choose between good and evil. But the fact is, children experience indirect consequences from their parents' sins, simply because they are their children! So unfortunately the children did suffer. But look at it this way: if God had failed to flood the world, those same children who died in the Flood would have grown up and become evil just like their parents. So in a sense, allowing the children to die was an act of mercy on them, and they probably went to heaven, whereas they wouldn't have otherwise. Animals aren't even moral creatures, so they don't deserve good or bad. Historically, the Flood occurred hundreds of years before the priesthood of God was established, so there were no priests back then. Probably the only preacher alive at that time was Noah. That's almost like if a hypothetical scientist from the Middle Ages exclaimed, "You mean to tell me that humans in the 20th century will learn how to create an airplane that flies? Give me a break! That's impossible! Therefore, it can't be true!" That's not evidence against an idea, it's only an argument from incredulity.
|
|
dan
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 116
|
Post by dan on Jan 10, 2007 22:14:18 GMT -5
Yea, children in the cradle are so evil. They sit there and crap on themselves. That should really be a punishable sin. When have you ever seen a baby kill someone in gods name? when have you ever seen a baby rape another underage child in the back of a church? Yea children are so much more worse than grownups. Not in the least! Children are innocent, and even the Bible makes this clear: "Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there" (Deut. 1:39). "For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings" (Isaiah 7:16). In my last post, I talked about why innocent children died during the Flood. The world was morally worse then than it is today; much of the same evils were being done, but they were more widespread. But this is not relevant. Just because "the church" protects child molesters doesn't mean that the God of the Bible approves of it. The Bible is completely oppposed to the church protecting child molesters (and so am I): "But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person...What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?...Therefore expel the wicked man from among you[/b]" (I Cor. 5:11-13).
|
|