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Post by necroshine on Dec 26, 2004 8:46:33 GMT -5
I had an odd dream last night. I was in my old neighborhood painting when I was struck down by this sickness. I fell on the ground and was in terrible pain. I couldn’t hold my paint brush and I couldn’t stand up. All I could do is lay on the ground shaking in pain. I had my wits about me I knew what was going on around me I just hurt all over. Some people came by and picked me up and took me in the house and called the doctor. When the ambulance came they told me it was “hell.” There was a sickness that was called hell. God was punishing me because I did something wrong. This same thing was happing all over the world. Doctors were trying to find a cure for it. The pain would ease up just for a second just to come back more powerful right after that. In the dream I remember seeing the tv and a bunch of preachers was on telling everyone to love god or else he would do this to them. I cut off the tv so I could talk so someone. Don’t know who it was. But they was crying beside me, wishing the pain would stop. The doctors was stumped, they didn’t know how to cure the pain. I was told that all other cures were put on hold and all research was going to find a cure for this. 1000 new cases were brought in every week. I could hear people crying all over the hospital, asking why god made them sick. A preacher came in and asked if I wanted to be saved. I asked why do I need to be saved. The preacher told me that it would stop the pain if I turn my life over to the lord. That is when a burst of pain shot through my body and I looked at him and said. God can not love anyone if he is willing to put people through this and everyday put more and more people in pain. Why should I love a monster that is ok with putting people through this much pain. There are doctors, who love more than god does, they are looking for a cure while god is tormenting people every day. I told him that it was like a rapist that sneaks in a window and tells the woman to love him or he will not stop raping her. Why should I love a god who is willing to put me through this so I would love him? Does that really make sense? The preacher then looked at me and said, so you would rather go through this pain instead of believing in god? You see his power and you know he is all around why don’t you believe and stop all the suffering? I stopped him right there and said that I didn’t start the suffering therefore I can not stop it, and I will not love someone who clearly don’t love me.
That is when I woke up. It was an odd dream that just reinforced my stance on this religious crap. No one in good conscience can says they would put their own children through that much pain and still say they love them. no one can say they would treat their children the way god would treat us if they love them. could you love a god that is willing to put you through that much pain forever? I have talked to many parents who kids have turned there backs on them but they still can’t say that they would want anything bad to happen to them. I have heard over and over that the kid might make them mad but it is there child and they would not want anything bad to happen to them. They are the parents of the grandchildren. Regardless of what happened in the past they still love them. to me god doesn’t show any trait like that.
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Dec 26, 2004 12:40:45 GMT -5
That is a bucn of crap  |
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Post by necroshine on Dec 26, 2004 13:31:00 GMT -5
Are you 10 years old? my 12 year old granddaughter can argue better than that. Do you not have any thoughts in your head? Do you only let other people think for you?
Now can you tell me what is “crap” about my dream? Do you think I’m making it up? Do you have an argument against what I am saying? If so I want to hear it.
What did I say, would you say is crap?
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Dec 26, 2004 13:47:17 GMT -5
Once again you continue to argue God is "evil" for sending people to hell. He is a loving God,a jealous one yes but a loving God. He wanted to create people to rule over and to praise him,worship him,glorify,magnify basiclly love him in every way. But he gave us freewill to do as we please. He didn't want us to be mindless slaves so we would get a lightning bolt sent to us everytime we mess up. Sometimes God is heavily in our lives. It may seem as if he is ready to knock on you door at anytime. Other times he hangs back,he works in mysterious ways. Sometimes as I said before his motives are unclear. His greates act of love was when he saw how man was doomed to burn with Lucifer. So he in the form of the Holy Spirit conceived the Virgin Mary and thus his son was born. With Jesus in human form he would preachheal,guide and lead us to God. He'd teach us every single possible way to enter God's Kingdom. When he was crucified in his broken and battered body. Absorbed every sin and wrong doing mankind had ever done. He was buried,resurrected and now sits on The Right Hand of God,where he judges the living and dead. That my friend is an act of love. We in no way or manner deserve God's love but he grants it to us regardless. Is that my friend an "evil" or unloving God?? I think not
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Post by necroshine on Dec 26, 2004 14:39:43 GMT -5
Is hell a good place to go? If it is not and god sends you there that is an act of evil in my book. How do you take it?
Jealousy and love does not go hand in hand. Last time I check jealousy is a bad emotion. How can you contribute that emotion to god? I know the bible says he is that way but it doesn’t make it right. Like sending most people to hell. Just because god is doing it doesn’t make it right.
First Corinthians 13:4 love is not jealous, it does not brag and is not proud.
Does this sound like god to you?
Two different things here. Either he wants peasants or he wants us with freewill. And if he is going to let us have our say then why punish us for making up our mind? Is he giving us a choice or not?
A lot of things about the bible is unclear, and just backwards. Don’t want mindless slaves but yet will punish us for not doing what he wants. So he wants us to believe in him out of fear. Is that better?
How does god having sex with a virgin and giving birth to jesus make everything ok?
Can not god just say “I forgive you” is that not in his power? How is killing your kid an act of love?
Even my 12 year old granddaughter can see this. does the fact that killing your kid is a bad thing escapes you. Plus what did got sacrifice? To make a sacrifice you have to give up something. God didn’t give up anything he didn’t lose anything. Jesus came down and then went back to heaven. Where is the sacrifice?
Why do we not deserve gods love? He made us. That is like having a kid and then saying that he doesn’t deserve your love. Would you ever say that about your kid? How is that love for us?
god is jealous, god says we don’t deserve his love, god has killed his kid, god will torment you forever.
What about that says that god is love?
One more thing if you bring life in this world you should be there for it and protect it. you should love it and forgive it for what it does. Everyone does this but god and any lunatic that might be out there. how does god show us he loves us?
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Post by AuntieSocial on Dec 26, 2004 17:21:02 GMT -5
That is a bucn of crap Instead of saying that things are "a bunch of crap", "dumb" or "stupid", why not give us the rationale behind our opinions. It makes it extremely difficult to have a conversaion/discussion when all there is to go on is a gut-reaction comment such as those listed above. Also, comments such as those make it very difficult to determine if your comment is towards the content of the post to which you are referring, or the person who made the post. |
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Post by Hilly on Dec 26, 2004 21:33:05 GMT -5
He is a loving God,a jealous one yes but a loving God. He wanted to create people to rule over and to praise him,worship him,glorify,magnify basiclly love him in every way. This sounds to me like the description of a very disturbed individual. Pathetic really. |
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Dec 27, 2004 0:02:39 GMT -5
He gave us a choice on how to live our lives. Adam and Eve had it all. But allowed Satan to tempt their minds and heart against what God wanted even though he told them When God gave Noah the instructions for the Ten Commandments the Israilties turned right around and worshipped a bull god. You argue he gave us freewill but punishes us for not doing what he says. Say you had a son,you teach him good morals and whatnot. All you say is that for every wrong thing he does there will be a price to pay. But you let him do as he pleases. When he does something wrong,will you not hold him accountable even though you gave him freewill?? that's like what God does. And you keep asking where in the bible it says God is love when the answer is infront of you. When he in the body of Jesus suffered for our sins to be forgiven so that we may have everlasting life. The very fact that we are sinful,wicked and hateful yet we still recieve blessings from God. You ask how we don't deserve his love. I tell you this. Mankind is wicked,decietful and evil. Day after day someone robbed a bank,or another murder,or another man commiting suicide,or someone having an affair. Since the beginning of time mankind's mind has been filled with vile wicked thoughts. Yet God still found it in his heart to forgive us. Jesus himself said he is the one and only way to come to God. For you to be saved means admitting and confessing and believing Jesus is the savior and for you to be saved. How is this not love?? we sin constantly yet God still forgives us. Is this not love??
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Post by necroshine on Dec 27, 2004 8:15:30 GMT -5
Hello sess,
I see your trying to show us gods good side. Isn’t it funny how two people can look at the same thing and see two completely different things? you see that god will forgive us of our sins and save us, to you that is a good thing. I view that as a bad thing because of the fact that he made us this way. It is nature that we act that way. That is the way we are wired to respond. Therefore why should we need forgiving? When my granddaughter acts up and starts stomping around and acting like an ass. I know it is because she is 12 and that is the way they act. Its nature, that is all. I understand this does god not?
Moses received the ten commandments.
Adam and eve messed up one time and god cursed all of us.
When she acts up I get on to her and she calms down. Then latter she will act up again and I will get on her case again. What I don’t do is curse her forever or put her in a fire or ask her to kill someone to prove that she loves me. I would never do any of them things.
Now I am so sorry if you don’t see that. It is in the bible all the things that god has asked of us and we would never ask that of others. Unless you was a sick person in the first place.
He made us like that. Do you not see this? he made it that we are selfish. That is not taught. A baby will be selfish when they have something and someone else tries to take it away. But yet the bible says that selfishness is a bad thing. I’m not saying that it is a great thing but if you make me to act one way then you should not hold it against me. true?
Besides that the bottom line with me is that god is going to send the non-believers to hell. Correct? Anyone who don’t accept jesus as the savior will go to hell. Is this what you believe? If that is true then most people who god has made will go to hell. Only one third of the world is christen. that means god is going to send 2/3’s of the world to hell. Is this ok with you? Does this sound like a loving god to you?
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Post by Hilly on Dec 27, 2004 10:38:05 GMT -5
The very fact that we are sinful,wicked and hateful yet we still recieve blessings from God. Mankind is wicked,decietful and evil. Since the beginning of time mankind's mind has been filled with vile wicked thoughts. How sad. Please don't presume to speak for all of mankind with your pessimistic negative thoughts. If you want to wallow in a world of self loathing go ahead, but I, and I expect most others, prefer a more positive outlook on mankind. Mankind will need not answer to you or your god. |
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Post by necroshine on Jan 12, 2005 22:16:23 GMT -5
How can people read in the bible that god is going to send the sinners to hell and the ones that are not saved.
Look at a census o the religions around the world.
How may are there?
How many people belong to each group?
How many people are going to be sent to hell?
More people will be sent to hell than get to go to heaven.
Is this an act of a loving god?
If he sees the world like this and our eternal soul hangs in the balance then why don’t he show everyone the correct way? Not just a book. You have to agree there are many books out there. No one knows for sure which one is the correct one, if any.
So if it is so important to god for us to get into heaven I would think it is in his power to show himself. Why hide from me? That is what he is doing, Hiding. I have never seen him and nor have you. So if my love is important to him show yourself. My wife would not stay married to me if I never came around. Why should she?
When I was a christen I thought asking god to show himself was stupid. I thought the question should not be asked. Because if god wanted to show himself he would. And who am I to tell god what to do.
But then I began to think. We are to meet god half way. We can’t do anything without him. We have to keep up our end of the bargain for him to do his. But then if he asks so much from us don’t we deserve to know what is correct? He warns us of false gods and not to worship them. Then a true god would help us out and we would know. But no god doesn’t work like that does he? We have to guess at what is correct. And our soul is on the line over a guess. What a load of crap. The whole thing is absurd. To have this much riding on a guess. I don’t like to gamble in the first place.
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Post by Sesshoumaru on Jan 13, 2005 17:47:36 GMT -5
God has a set time for his return. There is still hope for those who are unsaved.
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Post by Superhappyjen on Jan 14, 2005 11:57:53 GMT -5
necroshine as much as I agree with you, I think you're protesting too much. Your posts read like that of reverse televangelists.
My analysis (and correct me if I'm wrong): you discovered by reading the bible that the biblical God is a meanie. Your faith was shattered. Your angry at the biblical God. I ask you, why are you having nightmares about a being that does not exist? Perhaps a part of you still believes?
There is no such thing as God. Repeat that to yourself a few times before you go to bed. When the preacher in your dream tells you to give yourself to God, tell him God is a fairytale.
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Post by necroshine on Jan 15, 2005 8:55:35 GMT -5
Hi superhappyjen
You are correct but late.
I stopped believing about 16 years ago. When I was in the 10 grade. At first I was confused and as lost as to what to do as anyone can get. I had my art and that is all. I could not turn to family and only a few friends would talk about it. there was no internet to chat on. I had to figure it all out for myself. I live in Tennessee. Not the easiest place to be an atheist. Everyone around me does believe in god. I only know a hand few of agnostic people around here. Where I like in tn. There are many churches. In one place that I know 3 different churches share the same land. But yet no one around here thinks that it is odd. “We all believe in god but I don’t like how you believe in him.” We would rather waste money on keeping up many churches than help someone who needs the money.
Now that I’m older in my 30’s I have a few odd past times I like to indulge in. one is trouble shooting computers. The other is arguing with theorists. Being that I use to believe and I know much people believe that god is real I like to argue in the sense that he is real. I know it does not good. I know that I’m wasting my time. But it pisses off the people who do believe. I try to argue against god like he does exist. It does make me sound odd sometimes but I just find it funny how people pick and choose the properties that they want god to have. Most people have not even read the bible that they try to defend to the grave. You know this. I’m not telling you anything you don’t know. This is just my way of arguing. If you tell theists that there is no god they close down on you. Say you are going to hell and nothing more to be said. Or at least that has been my experience with it. so to keep the conversation going I argue like he is real and then I can show them the reasons he is a monster on there own ground.
I know it is stupid and there is better stuff to do with my time but like I said I have odd past times.
Thanks for the help. I know there is no boogie man. I’m past that point in my life. Now I just like to be an ass sometimes.
If god exists then show me how.
If god is good tell me why.
If god is all powerful show me.
Besides I’m just an ass online, not in real life. Well most of the time anyway. besides who knows why we dream what we dream? don't read too much into it. i don't
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Post by Superhappyjen on Jan 15, 2005 13:49:11 GMT -5
You just made up that nightmare for the sake of argument didn't you? You can tell me  |
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