The Reservoir Dog
Seasoned Citizen
I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with em' later.
Posts: 136
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Post by The Reservoir Dog on Jul 23, 2006 18:00:16 GMT -5
By the way Necroshine is right; being an atheist in the USA is a very large social obstacle for us to overcome. I was put in a catholic school k-12 which,I have lost 2 jobs because of my views on religion, I have lost friends, family and 4 girlfriends because their parents wouldn't accept me because I am an atheist. Living in a religious country like the USA is very difficult for us as atheists.
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Jul 24, 2006 2:40:46 GMT -5
I just realized this scenario... Look Who's Coming to Dinner updated
lol
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The Reservoir Dog
Seasoned Citizen
I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with em' later.
Posts: 136
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Post by The Reservoir Dog on Jul 24, 2006 5:21:53 GMT -5
I just realized this scenario... Look Who's Coming to Dinner updated lol Very true or perhaps shades of "Who's afraid of Virginia Wolfe?"
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jul 25, 2006 11:11:31 GMT -5
The truth is it is hard to live life no matter what your viewpoint on God is. So no matter how you choose to live your life you are going to have a hard time. Still, I have to say that my God makes it much easier to move through life. The beauty of these conversations is you don't have to believe and you don't have to like what I say. My God will still be here no matter what.
So what exactly is it that you found to hard to believe in the bible when your read it? What has proved to you that there isn’t an existence of a God?
Oh, wait I wanted to ask you again because you didn't answer my question. Did you pray the prayer of salvation? Did you ever ask god to forgive you and control you life by allowing the Holy Sprit to come into you? Did you understand and believe the prayer that you said that day? Do you understand why believers do that?
When you read the bible did you pray for guidance to understand what you were reading? Were you reading for edification or were you reading the Bible to prove a point?
You can’t try to make God fit in your little box when things don't happen the why you want them to. You have to allow him to be your guide. That is why he sent down the Holy Sprit.
Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it wrong. Just because you haven't found your evidence doesn’t mean that there isn't evidence.
What kind of God were you expecting? Really think about it what couldn't a god do. Doesn't the book call him the almighty, the alpha and omega? A God like that can do anything he chooses.
The truth is you can’t just believe you have to have a relationship with him. Meaning you have to communicate with him so that he can lead you through life.
Oh about the children... It has everything to do with respect. And like I said God, husband, kid, me. So I would send my husband and my kid and stay on the island with God.
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The Reservoir Dog
Seasoned Citizen
I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with em' later.
Posts: 136
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Post by The Reservoir Dog on Jul 25, 2006 13:09:52 GMT -5
Actually if you read my first post on the bottom of page 5 you would see I did answer your question. But I will reiterate since that appears to be what you want. YES I did say the prayer and mean it, yes i did ask for the gift of the holy spirit to guide me I was confirmed, yes I fully understood the prayer that I said that day, so yes I do understand why believers do that. There yes yes yes and yes, your question is answered as plain as day.
We have pointed out on many occasions all of the blatant contradictions and flaws and problems in the bible so I feel no need to do it again, no not because I can't find them but because I find that telling you the first 50 times did no good so why should this one.
I didn't try to make god fit into a box I tried to let him out of the box he was in, and just found that the whole time I was holding an empty box. I asked not for a solution to my problems but simply guidance to uncloud my mind on what must be done, and surprise surprise as much as I prayed (yes and believed my prayers would be answered) nothing happened.
Just because you still don't understand us doesn't make us wrong, so why o you constantly try to make us feel as if we are? This is a two way street guerrillasaint.
True a god like that could do anything he choses, but he choses not to because he is a selfish child if he even exists at all. I was expecting what the bible refers to as a god of compassion and he never came. Besides I already touched on my thoughts on the bible.
I didn't just believe I had a relationship with him I worked and strived and believed and wanted a relationship and nothing ever happened; go figure.
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Jul 25, 2006 13:46:24 GMT -5
The books in the Bible were organized and selected by men. The records on how they came about their decisions were destroyed, or lost, so no one would know. The criteria for the formation of the Bible have all been violated.
When you read the Bible in the way it was written, Paul's epistles first, you find that he does not talk about a historical figure. Jesus, as a man on Earth, was added in the Gospels that came later.
It's the Bible that puts God in a box. If God were to exist how could He be defined by words alone?
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Post by necroshine on Jul 25, 2006 17:12:36 GMT -5
I was thinking about the adam and eve story. God punished the two people that bit the apple. That is all fine and good to a point. But god went so far as to punish the snake. What the hell did the snake do? The snake did nothing at all. That was the devil taking a snake form, if I’m correct. But this child we call god punishes the snake by taking its legs. What the hell is going on here? There is no reason why god should punish an animal that he created? Guerrillasaint if you are reading this maybe this will open an eye, or at the least have a question pop up. If the devil was responsible for all this then why would god let him go free and instead punish the snake? It makes no since for this to happen. That is like a raciest that hates all black people because he got into a fight with one when he was younger. That was the devil in snake form. No where in the bible does god punish the devil save the time he made him into the devil. Then god lets him have full reign. The devil even goes so far as to make a bet with god that one man would turn his back on god. Then god let the devil torture this man that he loved. WOW what a god that is.
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Post by necroshine on Jul 25, 2006 17:20:26 GMT -5
Oh and if you are reading the posts please post something that that lets us think you are reading this. Stop asking us the same questions over and over. And discus what we have typed. Most of us here did believe in god and did ask god to come into their lives. After that if what you say is true we should had heard or felt god around us. I for one did not. So for me and many others here that just did not happen. With that when we read the bible it just doesn’t make common since. I’m surprised anyone believes it after they read it. Oh and sorry all for the double post.
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Jul 25, 2006 20:18:34 GMT -5
That is a damn good point! I'm adding that to my notes. ;D
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jul 29, 2006 1:04:43 GMT -5
Why did you believe in God? Did you ever feel his call on your life? Did you ever talk to God? Since you prayed the prayer of salvation and meant it (as you said) you should have God with you even now. How did you live your life when you believe in him? Did you live your life for him? Do you know what that means?
There are guidelines for you prayers to be answered. So if you don’t act right God won’t give you want you want.
1.Trust him and live your life the way he wants you to and he will be happy with your actions and give you want you want 2.Obey him 3.Be specific so that you know when you received the prayer. At the same time you will have a clear idea of what you want. 4. Pray in his will meaning when you pray say let your will be done in my life when you pray. That means that his will is paramount in your life Now the question is how do you know his will? You have to talk to him. Is this how you prayed when you prayed? So a prayer could sound like “Almighty God of heaven I pray that next week I will receive a job with Texas Workforce and it will pay $13 hr if it is in your will in Jesus name I do pray. Amen.”
(references Ps 37:4; Acts 10:24, 30-32; Acts 11:14; John 15:7; Luke 18:13-14; James 1:5; I John 3:21-22; I John 5:13-15)
How do you know if the snake is suffering? Have you had contact with this selfish god? If you haven't then how can you say he is childish? Because I don't understand how you could know God's personality if you don't believe in him. Also I wouldn't make statements that you may regret later.
To those who say the Bible is fallible because humans wrote it there is a certain way to read the Bible. You should pray before you read it so that the Holy Sprite can guide you thought it. Yep, that is right you need God to really understand it.
I will leave you with this quote: 1Co 2:6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing1Co 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
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Post by necroshine on Jul 29, 2006 7:42:39 GMT -5
Again with the same questions. Yes . yes, YES!! For the last time I went to church every week at least three times a week and sometimes more. I prayed to him EVERYDAY. I even went so far as when I was walking around town I would just talk to him on my way. When no one was around I would just start to talk to god. Even when I didn’t have much to say I would still just talk to him. Let him know how I was doing. I didn’t even ask for anything. I was happy just to know he was there. Then I read the bible figured out that he never spoke to me. I always had that question in my mind that when I talked to him I would hear nothing. But I ignored that part for years. But like I said I read the bible by myself, without anyone around to tell me what it said I was free to really read it. I also went so far as to read up on other religions and came to a root belief. If I am an atheist towards 2999 other gods then why was I holding one god above all that? The only thing that makes you and me different in the beliefs of a god is that I’m an atheist towards one more god than you are.
Also where did you get the rules to pray by? That is not in the bible. Are you making that up as you go? Please refrain from putting your own amendments to the bible in this. If they are your personal belief that is fine but don’t hold them up as rules of behavior that everyone must go by. That is what the Catholics try to do.
i never once said the snake is suffering. If you read the bible the same way you read my posts then no wonder you believe as strongly as you do. You have no problem putting in words that are not there. I didn’t say the snake was suffering. I said
So why would god punish the snake? The snake didn’t do anything. It was the devil not the snake. Look it up in your bible if you don’t believe me. I don’t see any snake suffering that is in good health.
Oh and I will leave you with some quotes from your loving child god. Ye shall keep the sabbath ... every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death.--Exodus 31:14
Nice isn’t it. God will kill you if you don’t keep the Sabbath. But of course I don’t see that happing do you?
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.--Luke 19:27
God wants you to kill people for him. Nice loving child we have here.
And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land.--Jeremiah 24:10
If god didn’t want the people here then why put them here in the first place? but then he couldn’t have his little butt kissers kill people for him could he?
This one should be of interest to you about helping people that don’t believe in the lord.
Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.--2 Chronicles 19:2
Stop trying to help us. By the way do you have $10 I can borrow? lol
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The Reservoir Dog
Seasoned Citizen
I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just gonna ask where they're goin' and meet up with em' later.
Posts: 136
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Post by The Reservoir Dog on Jul 30, 2006 18:52:43 GMT -5
Oh your god Guerillasaint what the hell?! I have already told you that I have done everything you ask of us to "find peace with god" and it didn't work. I prayed the prayer of salvation meant every word and believed every word and NOTHING happened. I didnn't ask for any specific thing to happen when I prayed for help I asked for him to do his will which apparently was to do nothing at all. By the way I did when I believed, and actually still do, live the christian ideals better than most christians I have known; I do more charity work, and I am nicer to the poor and help them more than most others. So technically on the off chance that the christians are right I should be ok with god anyway because I live all of his morals except for praising him and all that crap; if that isn't good enough for him he is a selfish prick who deserves to be lonely. I did everything I was supposed to to be in constant contact with god and came out of all of it with nothing more than the relization that I can be a happy and good person without him because he isn't there.
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jul 30, 2006 23:09:36 GMT -5
It seems that I have been less attentive for these last few post. Excuse me I will try to be more attentive because I truly want to understand you. I am working on patience so for the next post I will try to be more careful with what I read.
I believe you read my question wrong. I didn’t write did you believe, Why you believe. What made you believe that God was the god to worship?
I don’t quite understand what you mean? What about the bible convinced you that he never talked to you? Is the only reason because you didn’t physically hear him say something to you? The things is you have to read the bible in its entirety. There is a common thread of when people do as God ask then they get want they ask for. It is like when you do what your parents tell you then they can trust you when you ask for something. They know that you won’t do anything that is way out of the norm. So they trust to give you want you want because you are trust worthy. Now this isn’t a perfect example because when you pray you should say something along the lines of “God let your will be done.” So if it isn’t in his will he will he may not give it to you. That is why these are more guidelines than rules
Ps 37:3 Trust in Yahweh, and do good. Dwell in the land, and enjoy safe pasture. 4 Also delight yourself in Yahweh, and he will give you the desires of your heart. This is pretty much saying that if you are about God he will be about you. So if you ask him for something him you will always keep in mind what he wants and what you want.
Act 10 1-32 Act 11:14 Is about Cornelius who was a gentile and Paul. Cornelius was obedient when God told him to go ask Paul to come and Paul who was a jew. So in the end it says his prayers are heard.
Da. 10:12 “Then said he to me, Don't be afraid, Daniel; for from the first day that you did set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard: and I am come for your words' sake.”
John 15:6-7 If a man doesn't remain in me, he is thrown out as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7. If you remain in me, and my words remain in you, you will ask whatever you desire, and it will be done for you. Verse 7 means that if you stay connected to God and study and do what the words command, which he will help you move through. Then you will get what you want because you are going to show that you are trust worthy with what he gives you. You have to do what he wants you to do so he is happy to give you what you want. Also what you want will still be in his will because you are connected to him. Mark 11:24 Therefore I tell you, all things whatever you pray and ask for, believe that you have received them, and you shall have them. John 14:13 Whatever you will ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 1Jo 3:22-24 and whatever we ask, we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do the things that are pleasing in his sight. This is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, even as he commanded. He who keeps his commandments remains in him, and he in him. By this we know that he remains in us, by the Spirit which he gave us. Pr 28:9 As for the man whose ear is turned away from hearing the law, even his prayer is disgusting..
You know I wondered that myself. So lets see. Ge 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any animal of the field which Yahweh God had made. He said to the woman, "Has God really said, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden?'" The serpent can talk! I never notice that. Now I know what you are thinking but remember some birds can talk and we can train animals so they understand us. So animals aren’t dumb at all. Also as you can see he was cunning as well or subtle. Another thing you must remember is the devil can only influence things/people. So the serpent had to agree with the devil to go along with the plan (Lu 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.) That is why he was punished because he was also a player in going against God and brings sin into the world.
Ex 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (WEB) As you can see that there is a semicolon here so I looked up what a semicolon was and how to use it. I found that is used to precede the words “for example,” “for instance, “as in,” etc. in sentences. (Which we don’t see here) Or To separate items in a long list, especially when commas have already been used. (Which we don’t see here) Or To separate two independent thoughts in a sentence that otherwise, would have been separated by using a conjunction such as and or but (so I guess it is this one) So it can read. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death and/but for whoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Profane 1. Marked by contempt or irreverence for what is sacred. 2. Nonreligious in subject matter, form, or use; secular: sacred and profane music. 3. Not admitted into a body of secret knowledge or ritual; uninitiated. 4. Vulgar; coarse.
So that means that first statement, “Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death” they didn’t just not work (because the just get you cut off from the community “that soul shall be cut off from among his people”) they did something way out of Gods commandments. They had no regard of it being holy. As you know the wages of sin are death. Also this rule doesn’t matter now because of Jesus. He was the word personified. [Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.] He kept every commandment and then died for our sins so now we are living in the time of Grace.[ Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens.] When Ex 31:14 was written it was the time of the law. That is why they can to continually sacrifice animal. We don’t sacrifice animals because Jesus is our sacrifice and one he did it that was it. [Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off are made nigh in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition, having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:] When the rapture comes around it will go back under the law. Lu 19:27 But bring those enemies of mine who didn't want me to reign over them here, and kill them before me.'" He isn’t telling us what we should do to his enemies. He is say what will happen to his enemies on judgment day. In my bible it says, “and now about these enemies of mine who didn’t want me to be their king bring them in and execute them right here in my presence.” It is no secrete that Christians believe that the wages of sin is death. [Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.] To sin is to say you want to do it your way not God’s way.
Jer 24:10 And I will send the sword, and need of food, and disease, among them till they are all cut off from the land which I gave to them and to their fathers. So Jeremiah is speaking to Judah, which is the southern kingdom. The entire book of Jeremiah was to get them to turn from there evil ways. It is also heavy on symbolism because it is a combination of history, poetry, and biography. The verse you quoted from comes from an illustration using good Figs (Exiles from Judah to Babylon Jer 24:5) and the Bad Figs (are king Zedekiah of Judah, his officials, all the people left in Jerusalem, and those who live in Egypt) The Good Figs will not be forgotten and he is going to let them go through the exile because he knows that they will respond well to it. He is going to protect them because he knows that they will stick with him. [Jer 24:7 And I will give them a heart to have knowledge of me, that I am the Lord: and they will be my people, and I will be their God: for they will come back to me with all their heart.] Now the bad figs which aren’t good enough to eat. This illustration should show you what they are like. [Jer 24:2 One basket had very good figs, like the figs which first come to growth: and the other basket had very bad figs, so bad that they were of no use for food.] Why keep around rotten fruit. These people stop listening to God and they are doing their own thing. In other words sinning. So God does what he does to unrepentant sinners. He get ride of them hence Jer 24:10, “And I will send the sword, and need of food, and disease, among them till they are all cut off from the land which I gave to them and to their fathers.” This is also an example to all of us who don’t heed what God says. So what he will destroy are the people who don’t want anything to do with him. Who want to do there own thing. Remember when he made man and the woman he made them to be with him and have to choice where to follow him or not. Which they did until the broke his one and only rule. He had to give them a choice to follow him or not or else that would really be truly following him. Also he still has a plan. Right now he is collecting the people who want to be with him.
2Ch 19:1 And Jehoshaphat, king of Judah, went back to his house in Jerusalem in peace.2 And Jehu, the son of Hanani the seer, went to King Jehoshaphat and said to him, Is it right for you to go to the help of evil-doers, loving the haters of the Lord? Because of this, the wrath of the Lord has come on you. So this could mean two things. God doesn’t want any of his believers to help out anyone who don’t believe in him. Or he doesn’t want you to serve two masters i.e. not helping people get better but helping people continue in there wrong. It is the latter and here are my scripture to prove my statement [Pr 25:26 If the godly compromise with the wicked, it is like polluting a fountain or mudding a spring.] [Pr 25:21 If your hater is in need of food, give him bread; and if he is in need of drink, give him water:] [Ro 12:20-21 But if one who has hate for you is in need of food or of drink, give it to him, for in so doing you will put coals of fire on his head. Do not let evil overcome you, but overcome evil by good.]
I would give you a 10 but I am so broke it ain’t even funny. (sorry so much to read but I tried to address everyting)
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Post by guerrillasaint on Jul 30, 2006 23:32:34 GMT -5
Must have been writing when you posted Dog, check this that right there isn’t going to win you any brownie points with God. Also maybe if you were specific you would know if he answered you prayer. Still I am going to ask these questions again because I didn’t get an answer.
Why (not did) did you believe in God? Did you ever feel his call on your life? Did you ever talk to God? If you never talked to God how do you know that you are doing everything he wants you to do? See he gives all of us special gifts and puts us in situations that will help him further his kingdom. So you can do the religious things but he may want you to do something tailor made for you. Like take me for instance. I use my art to teach and spread the word of God. If you look in Acts Paul used his own personal experiences with God to further his experiences. He also used his talents as well. So when you believed did you use your special gifts for him? Did you know you purpose as a believer in Christ.
Can you explain to me why exactly you don't believe now, what made you believe he wasn’t real? What is your personal undeniable proof? Why are you so firm in your atheism? What is it about this world that shows you everything in the bible is a farce?
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snafui
Seasoned Citizen
Posts: 169
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Post by snafui on Jul 31, 2006 0:00:18 GMT -5
This is a typical saying that many cultures use to dissuade those that disagree with them from continuing the argument. It's a copout because they have lost the argument and decide to use a "higher" authority to back out. The Bible has contradictions, period, let me show you my personal favorite. Read Luke 3:23-38 and then Matthew 1:1-17.
1) The commentary in Luke where it says "supposed" was added in later versions and was not there to begin with.
2) The father of Joseph is different from each version, just follow the line up and look at the different names.
3) In Matthew it clearly states that Joseph was Jesus' father.
This is the inspired word of God writen by men under the influence of the Holy Spirit? Did the Holy Spirit have a bad memory or was it just not quite as omnisceint as God the Father?
And...
So a snake is a reasoning being capable of self thought and making a decision that affects all of mankind? Wow, PETA can now use the Bible to justify their ramblings!
Mimicing sound is not a sign of intelligence, for that matter neither is speach. There are many people alive that have a basic function of language but we don't let them try to live by themselves because they would get hurt. They can talk but that doesn't mean they can think. I have trained my dog quite well and she is very obedient and she is smart for a dog, but still a dumb animal. I can teach her commands and she will obey but that doesn't stop her from doing things an animal will do without thought. She's a dog, she can't think. If my dog comes up with a discourse on the writings of Plato then, and only then, will I consider her capable of self thought.
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